Hello Holland,
the DWG has been asked to comment on this thread.
Notes are most useful when they are created by people with local knowledge who cannot map (or do not have the time to map). For example: “I live here and the bakery has moved away yesterday.” - this is good information that mappers can use immediately, and that they might not have noticed otherwise.
(Of course, if a person with excellent local knowledge starts to open dozens of notes with details, there comes a point where you want to say: “Why not edit the map yourself?”)
Most mappers view a note as a problem that they are asked to resolve: “There’s something wrong here, please fix it!” - therefore, if someone opens many notes like that, that can easily be read as: “You local mappers did’t do your job right, you need someone to show you all the mistakes you made”. This is of course not a good basis for teamwork.
This is especially true if the person opening the map does not use any resources that were not available to the local mappers anyway. Compare:
“I walked past this place today and a new house has been built that is not on the aerial image yet” → helpful, even local mappers don’t walk all the streets all the time
“I looked at Bing imagery and saw there was a house here but it is not on OSM yet” → not so helpful, if local mappers had wanted to compare OSM with Bing imagery they could have done that themselves
I have a feeling that while Math1985’s notes were not wrong or abusive, they were often of the second kind - something that the local mappers could have done themselves if they wanted to. Instead, local mappers put their priorities elsewhere; and then Math1985 comes and nags them about a particular footway. And if the matter is not resolved after three months, he asks again.
While this might have been intended as helpful and diligent my Math1985, the local mappers can easily feel “bossed around” by it (“why should we map what Math1985 wants instead of what we want”).
Even though I have only read your discussions on Google translate, I think what we have here is a clear communications problem. Math1985 says: “Here’s some information that will help us make a better map”, and a few others hear “You lazy people, you haven’t done your job right, go and fix all these things immediately”.
The fact that Math1985 has continued adding these types of notes while the discussion was ongoing makes it obvious that he does not understand that others might consider this offensive.
Math1985, please understand that our notes system is not very sophisticated. It doesn’t support filtering or priorities. If we had priorities or tags like we have e.g. in Github, then many of your notes would be “suggestions for improvement”, while other notes could be actual “bugs”. Our notes system treats everything as equal, and local mappers might want to ignore your “suggestions” and focus on actual bugs. (The fact that some of your notes were un-answered for months or years tells you that there was little interest in working on it.) By covering an area in “suggestions”, you make it very hard for mappers to use the notes system - you force your will on them. You’re practically shouting at them: “HERE FIX ALL THESE THINGS THAT I FOUND FOR YOU!!!”
In placing notes, you communicate with the local community. If the local community is unhappy about your notes - and perhaps they don’t express that unhappiness directly, perhaps they just stop resolving your notes because they find them not helpful? - then you should respect that. Yes, your notes do point to potential improvements - but perhaps adding dozens of them over night in a small area is just too much. Why not add one or two, see if they get picked up by an eager local community, and then add a few more once they’re done?
We’re all on the same side here, it is just a communications issue. I’m sure Math1985 doesn’t want to boss people around, but he might not always possess the best judgement about how his notes are received by others.
Martin, I see that you have “resolved” a large number of Math1985’s notes with snarky comments. I can see how you might be pissed off but in the future, try to resolve this by discussion. Explain to Math1985 exactly why and how you find his comments unhelpful, and what he could do to be more helpful. I am sure that Math1985 would have closed the notes himself if you had taken the time to explain in more detail.
I hope that the Dutch Community will be able to solve this peacefully. Every single person in OSM has their own communications style, some more quirky some less. It sometimes takes work to understand the other viewpoint. But in the end we all want the same thing.
There were some comments in this thread that I found a bit nasty. It is not nice if you have to read things like “I know many people who think that X is a nuisance”. It can help to concentrate on actions, not people: “I don’t like it when someone does Y”, instead of “I don’t like X because he always does Y”.
For some use cases where the notes system is too limited, perhaps an “umap” approach works better.
Also, if someone would like to volunteer for improving the “Notes” system to allow filtering (“show only notes older/younger than X, only from/not from author Y, only with priority Z…”)…
Bye
Frederik
(OSMF Data Working Group)