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#1 2022-08-02 07:37:03

Poliakoff Mykhailo
Member
From: Malyn, Zhytomyr oblast Ukraine
Registered: 2019-03-15
Posts: 65

Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

There are two ways to write the name of a Ukrainian street in German:
1 is to take the English transliteration and add Straße
For example, Molodizhna-Straße
Heroiv-Maidanu-Straße
Tarasa-Shevchenka-Straße
2 or make a transliteration into German
these same streets are recorded in this way
Molodischna-Straße
Herojiw-Majdanu-Straße
Tarassa-Schewtschenka-Straße

the disadvantage of the second method is that the two Ukrainian letters "sh" and "zh" are transliterated equally as sch

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#2 2022-08-02 07:57:19

flohoff
Member
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 533
Website

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

But isnt adding "Straße" unconditionally wrong anyway? Without knowledge about ukrainian/russian too much would you consider "Prospekt" and "Uliza" to be the same? So would you drop those prefixes?

I wouldnt think adding Straße makes it any better.

I'd vote for simple transliteration and no adding of Straße somewhere.

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#3 2022-08-02 08:46:05

dieterdreist
Member
From: Roma, Italia
Registered: 2010-09-22
Posts: 4,218
Website

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

also in German there are many variations of “Straße”, e.g. -weg, -gasse, promenade, ring, allee, each of which have their own connotations.

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#4 2022-08-02 12:35:09

Mammi71
Member
Registered: 2018-06-25
Posts: 2,622

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

Poliakoff Mykhailo wrote:

There are two ways to write the name of a Ukrainian street in German

Why?

The purpose of name:**= is not to translate the street name, but to map the common/known name in another language in OSM.

Example: probably no one in Germany uses the name "Independence Square" or in German "Platz der Unabhängigkeit" in Kyiv, but many people know this square simply as "Maidan".

And what does Tsentralna Street mean?
Central Street?

Or: where does the name "Haharina Street" come from? I don't think anyone knows a Haharina Street.
name:uk=Гагаріна вулиця - was the street named after Yuri Gagarin?

Please: it is not necessary to translate all Ukrainian street names. Leave it to native speakers to find out which Ukrainian geographical names (not only streets) are common in other languages. Otherwise, a transcription from the Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet into Latin letters may suffice.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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#5 2022-08-02 16:28:01

seichter
Member
Registered: 2011-05-21
Posts: 3,336

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

Mammi71 wrote:

Leave it to native speakers to find out which Ukrainian geographical names (not only streets) are common in other languages.

+1
Common names in German are typical only the greatest cities and rivers e.g. Kiew, but even that may change in time. In former german maps you may find Charkow instead of Charkiw and in older maps Lemberg instead of Lwiw.
In almost all cases a transcription of the (ukrainian) cyrillic alfabet should suffice.

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#6 2022-08-02 16:44:08

FraukeLeo
Member
Registered: 2020-08-03
Posts: 881

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

+1. There’s no need at all to translate street names.
name:de=* is meant for German names that are in use (such as name:de=Kiew for Київ).

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#7 2022-08-08 08:49:22

flohoff
Member
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 533
Website

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

Um diesen Thread mal zu kapern. Wenn eine Anwendung z.b. Namen aus dem Ukrainischen, Russischen oder sonst einer Sprache mit non-latin Alphabet anzeigen möchte gibt es ja für viele (alle?) Sprachen eine translitaration mit latenischen Buchstaben. Ist die typischerweise so definiert das die Automatisiert anwendbar ist, oder sollten diese Transliterierten Namen bei osm in tags?

Das ist mal erstmal nur die Frage nach "Automatischer transliteration" von z.b. Ukrainisch.

Flo

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#8 2022-08-08 09:01:52

chris66
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 10,106

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

Dagegen. Es sei denn es bleibt im Rahmen, wenn mans zB nur für größere Städte macht.


Mapper aus dem Münsterland.

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#9 2022-08-08 13:34:47

woodpeck
Member
Registered: 2009-12-02
Posts: 1,210

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

Automatische Transliterationen sind in OSM unerwünscht. Das steht auch so auf der Seite https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names - wobei ich jetzt gerade im Zuge der Recherche für diesen Beitrag bemerkt habe, dass jemand da ein bisschen viel eigene Vorstellungen in den Text eingebaut hatte, so dass ich erst mal dort was revertieren musste wink

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#10 2022-08-08 15:30:50

aighes
Member
From: Shanghai
Registered: 2009-03-29
Posts: 5,383
Website

Re: Ukrainische Straßen auf Deutsch

In case on site the streets (or other objects) have a German name, it would make sense to add this name as name:de. In China for example most streets have additional to the Chinese name also an English name. If this isn't the case, there is no need to add name:de. If there is a German name existing for any specific objects, native speakers would add it.

But there is no benefit adding translated names. It won't help anyone to find his/her way.

Last edited by aighes (2022-08-08 15:32:10)


Viele Grüße
Henning

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