“Without local knowledge remote mappers are likely to mess up highway classification more.” seems to be the main concern in that other topic. I don’t see how that could do any harm in this case. It’s just a bit of simple quality assurance, not a missing roads challenge.
Zo begint doorgaans een salami-tactiek.
Het begin is onschuldig en onderschrijft zogenaamd de uitgangs principes van OSM.
Maar waar eindigt het ?
Bovendien tellen de slechte ervaringen met onervaren gebruikers van deze “speeltjes” wel degelijk een rol.
Wat te denken van een brug naar een boerenerf met 12 onzinnige tags, zoals maxheight, bus=no, etc etc.
Moet heel NL vol komen te staan met lane_markings=no ?
We hebben meerdere goede mappers die uitstekend in staat zijn om queries te bouwen en fouten op te sporen.
Daar hebben we geen Maproulette challenge voor nodig, die slechts random wordt gebruikt en dus nooit een compleet beeld geeft.
Het lijkt me belangrijk om een onderscheid te maken tussen enerzijds “mappen in NL (en omgeving)” en anderszijds “mogelijke belangenconflicten tussen OSM en commerciële bedrijven/organisaties”. Het ene hoort hier thuis, en hoort voor mijn part in het Nederlands; de andere discussie kan in het Engels maar moet wel op een universelere plaats gebeuren.
I’m also providing a Dutch version of this message below, since I see that some of you prefer to communicate in Dutch.
Thanks for sharing some more thoughts.
We understand your worries about corporate editing. We recognize your commitment to your standards and guidelines and respect them. As fellow mapmakers we want to help improve the map, which we’ve already successfully done with other communities (for instance the Polish community, as RicoElectrico mentions).
We’d love to talk about either of the projects we proposed:
the charging station tag fixes, for which we have now also created a challenge in the Netherlands (see this link to MapRoulette).
We could also support you in leveraging MapMetrics to help you with some of your own projects. It is the first release to OSM from Steve Coast’s Innovation team within TomTom, and we are excited about its potential.
We’re also interested to hear if you have any other ideas. We’re excited to combine our strengths and map together.
Hallo iedereen
Bedankt om deze bijkomende opmerkingen met ons te delen.
We begrijpen jullie bezorgdheden omtrent edits door bedrijven. We erkennen dat jullie bepaalde standaarden en richtlijnen volgen en willen die ook respecteren. Net als jullie zijn we kaartenmakers, en in die hoedanigheid willen we samen met jullie de kaart nog beter maken. We hadden al succesvolle samenwerkingen met andere communities, bijvoorbeeld de Poolse, zoals RicoElectrico vermeldde.
We zouden het graag met jullie hebben over de projecten die we voorstelden:
het fixen van de charging station tags, waarvoor we nu ook een challenge aangemaakt hebben in Nederland (zie deze MapRoulette-link).
We kunnen jullie ook helpen gebruikmaken van MapMetrics ter ondersteuning van jullie eigen projecten. Het is de eerste release naar OSM van Steve Coasts Innovation-team binnen TomTom, en we zijn enthousiast over het potentieel van deze tool.
Als jullie andere ideeën hebben, horen we dat graag. We zouden het fijn vinden om onze krachten te bundelen en samen aan de kaart te werken.
Knowing places that are correct drawn in with the newest data, mostly of the Government, like BGT omtrekgericht, every street is checked, access tagged according to the traffic_sign, and still finding yellow, orange and red tiles on the map.
Okay, some development, new house blocks, one temporally closed street.
There are much much false positive.
Looking at a colored tile, how to find, what’s wrong.
Looking for “the needle in the haystack”, because someone tells, there could be a needle.
A colored tile is often a whole neighbourhood. Lot of cut roads to check.
Straight roads, like the road on the Markerwaarddijk between Enkhuizen and Lelystad,
mostly red, orange, yellow tiles, must everyone look there, the next one looks again, what is wrong?
Because of this.
The use of this tool is time consuming. If you want to find a spot to edit.
And does not give the effect it should give.
Download, not usable data, data set to big for local OSM use. 1.9 GB
Inside .csv is no extra hints, where to look.
All these data sets, we only need the latest.
In the base, it is a good idea, but it is to vague, to find in seconds, what the problem is.
A lot of Mapmetrics false positives can be found along railroads, and also along shipping/ferry routes.
These really need to be addressed first before this starts to become useful.
As for the Maproulette challenges: I’m not interested myself, but that’s because I tend(ed) to map things I encounter myself, and I mostly do mapping for the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team. The Tasking Manager they’ve set up (tasks.hotosm.org) could be a good approach to handling the Mapmetrics squares.
I don’t see a problem with the first challenge and encourage challenges that don’t require local knowledge and are easy to fix.
For the second challenge the text doesn’t match the actual challenge. There are a lot of not-Tesla superchargers.
And the description reads “(there is no space between value and units).” whilst the challenge is set correctly to suggest a space, which is indeed the standard within OsM.
There are tiles from MapMetrics in Fryslân that colour red but have all the roads correctly mapped since the AND import and there aren’t even any potential tracks visible.
So sorry but to be quite blunt for The Netherlands MapMetrics in its current state is completely useless and is filled with false positives.
Ik denk dat dat is omdat niemand echt ingaat op haar vraag maar er opeens een hele metadiscussie over TomTom ontstaat.
IMHO is het een vrij simpele fix die als een automatische edit gedaan kan worden. Doen. Maar verwacht wel dat je dit moet herhalen want dit is gewoon iets wat niet altijd goed getagd wordt.
As long as large(r) projects are shared within the community I don’t think it matters whether a party is commercial or not.
Great that TomTom decides to use Openstreetmap data and that they run an extra check on the quality of the data.
The two aforementioned projects don’t seem to hurt; I guess many people run similar fixes on for instance opening hours or phone numbers. So rewriting the kW into the correct form would be fine.
And I’m not particularly a Maproulette connoisseur but I know it gets a lot op people going.
I’d say: thanks for notifying and please let us know when there are new projects ahead!
The tool is brand new and still requires fine-tuning. That is why we really appreciate this valuable feedback. We will take it along as we further improve MapMetrics. Note that some of your concerns will already be addressed in a new release that’s coming out soon.
Regarding the false positives: Steve Coast’s team is working on removing these. He wrote about this in his most recent blog post (also mentioned in this thread by FriendlyGhost and Commodoortje).
Furthermore, we have new documentation about MapMetrics (in PDF format) that will answer some of your questions. Would you like to receive this?
Thank you for the Tasking Manager suggestion, it indeed seems useful.
We are not in that list because we do not offer commercial OSM software or services. We are however in the list of Organised Editing Teams.
Thanks for catching this. We’ve revised the challenge description so it’s more accurate.
We are happy to work on this if it’s helpful for the community. Our intent is to support the community’s interests (this particular challenge was prepared based on an idea described in this thread).
–
We willen hier graag aan werken als dat nuttig is voor jullie. Ons doel is om de noden van de community te ondersteunen (deze specifieke challenge werd aangemaakt op basis van een idee beschreven in deze discussie).
We’re glad to read this. It is indeed our aim to always share projects with the community upfront. We are currently working on detecting and reviewing issues in the map and will let you know if this results in any project plans. I can say already that we want to start working on road edits in the near future. We will keep you posted on this.
Once again, thank you all for the fruitful discussion.
I don’t agree. As far as I understand (but your information about what your goals are is still very limited!) TomTom is going to use OSM data to offer commercial services, hence my suggestion.