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#1 2021-09-18 09:39:42

cmoffroad
Member
Registered: 2021-07-15
Posts: 34

Off-road guidelines

With the help of @crsCR from Chiang Rai, I have prepared a set of guidelines for improving the OpenStreetMap off-road network in Thailand with a focus on enduro, MTB, and hiking.

https://github.com/cmoffroad/osm-guidelines

The goal is to bring together existing and new OSM contributors to make better maps available for the offroad community through supported mobile and Garmin applications. All up-to-date details are in the link above.

Status: In Use. If you have any feedback, concerns, or change requests, please post a reply below.

Last edited by cmoffroad (2021-09-27 06:56:41)

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#2 2021-09-18 09:58:05

cmoffroad
Member
Registered: 2021-07-15
Posts: 34

Re: Off-road guidelines

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

I use to travel on a bicycle without any engine, just powered by my muscle strength. I prefer minor roads in rural areas, and sometimes get onto smaller paths which local people may use on their small motorbikes. With their width of a hand span, they are called "jalan se-tapak" (one hand span wide road) in Indonesian (I do not know how it's called in Thai). I am sure that I added the bicycle=yes tag for such paths, but I am not sure if I always added a motorbike=yes tag, too. So you might consider to include such paths.

highway=path includes implicitly all non-motorized vehicles so bicycle=yes, foot=yes, horse=yes... do not need to be added, unlike motorcycle=yes which is implicitly excluded.

A common use-case where bicycle=yes is required would be on urban paths that are designated for pedestrians: highway=footway + bicycle=yes

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

And sometimes, there are small bridges which cannot be used by car (not wide enough), but good for bicycles and motorbikes.

- these should be normally tagged as highway=path + motorcycle=yes + bridge=yes + layer=1,
- and those that can only handle the weight of people as highway=footway + bridge=yes + layer=1 (e.g. bamboo/broken bridges)

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#3 2021-09-24 04:20:01

kellerk
New Member
Registered: 2021-09-23
Posts: 1

Re: Off-road guidelines

Re: highway=path includes implicitly all non-motorized vehicles
In Thailand nearly all paths are used by motorcycles. I would have rather all two wheeled vehicles included with no need to tag paths as motorcycle=yes. 

Re: highway=footway
It would be good to include hiking trails in highway=footway. In the OSM-wiki footway examples are only in urban areas

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#4 2021-09-24 07:51:01

cmoffroad
Member
Registered: 2021-07-15
Posts: 34

Re: Off-road guidelines

Hi Kurt,

Re: highway=footway
It would be good to include hiking trails in highway=footway. In the OSM-wiki footway examples are only in urban areas

Definitely, I will take care of updating the wiki and mentioned this in the forum.

kellerk wrote:

Re: highway=path includes implicitly all non-motorized vehicles
In Thailand nearly all paths are used by motorcycles. I would have rather all two wheeled vehicles included with no need to tag paths as motorcycle=yes. 

Ideally yes, the problem is many hiking trails (at least in Chiang Mai) have been tagged as "path" instead of "footway", probably because of the confusing wiki definitions. The plan is to review these paths and potentially change them to "footway". The extra motorcycle tag is a way to mark them as reviewed (besides allowing future potential routing). Other mappers already use this approach when doing ground surveys.

I am aware that most of the paths/trails in Chiang Dao have been correctly tagged. I will share soon some links to review the data and I could help with automatically adding the missing tags. e.g. surface=unpaved is missing a lot in Chiang Dao and many outdoor applications render footways as paved when no surface is specified.

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#5 2021-09-24 17:46:09

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 1,075

Re: Off-road guidelines

cmoffroad wrote:

tagged as "path" instead of "footway"

Long ago, on the rim of Batur caldera on Bali, I had my Garmin calculate the route to a hotel. It took a strange route: via the top of Batur volcano, because the hiking paths on the volcano were already mapped, with a path tag, to which I added a bicycle=yes during the map  creation process...

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#6 2021-09-24 18:46:34

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 1,075

Re: Off-road guidelines

Let me add a couple of photos - hoping the links will work (note: not all from Thailand)

Narrow bridge:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xUi8y7fuyBhZrmkx9

Concrete lanes (beware of buses on that road!)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SmkmC8wGU8TPegEK9

Path used by motorcycles between paddies:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bjK4d2HxB7WwY4v9A

Carry your bike up to the bridge (likely not possible for motor cyclists):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dmxMKfo9rHCVPPfj7

Take care of falling rocks:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Tht78Xq4YveALa7r7

"Residential" road
https://photos.app.goo.gl/MVL5AmTbqE9s4yaW7

Bamboo bridge, re-built each dry season:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ad7F1nc8mTtVzBdK9

Land slide
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LuLHSfjpi8X21gen8

Strange bridge:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hhc7hW6qJtestuHx7

Beware of flooding:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/e7GyrfvKrGhLuhtC8

Damaged surface:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/McQUbLM3pPpxkDHD8

Use the bridge with care
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QrWRf8az8V3vL4Lz6

Facebook road:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PoZhFUiYc6XuSRwD8

ref=submerged
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Kz2C96XJcY8485eZ7

formerly a bridge
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TXWVYbA3UETRjgca9

sudden end
https://photos.app.goo.gl/V5yqHCMgRJEMBpen9

low water bridge
https://flickr.com/photos/132567578@N06 … 218795408/

missing bridge and make-shift deviation
https://flickr.com/photos/132567578@N06 … 218795408/

path in orchard
https://flickr.com/photos/132567578@N06 … 218795408/

suspension bridge
https://flickr.com/photos/132567578@N06 … 018938862/
https://flickr.com/photos/132567578@N06 … 018938862/

iron lane bridge
https://flickr.com/photos/132567578@N06 … 018938862/

dry season only road
https://flickr.com/photos/132567578@N06 … 018938862/

So, a collection of fun from several countries. Likely, you won't find a good tagging scheme for all of them - and you won't need them all anyway.

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