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#1 2021-06-07 09:30:05

IIVQ
Member
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 802

user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

Dear all,

I found that user:Arflha has changed a lot of normal city roads in separate ways for each direction, sometimes even for each ways. Often in many, many changesets that are extremely hard to turn back and also hard work to repair manually...

A few examples I ran into:
* Gosselies Rue Vandervelde - Faubourd de Bruxelles - Rue Leopold
* Gosselies Rue de Namur et N5
* Charleroi Pont de la Villette - Avenue Paul Pasteur
* Charleroi Avenue Marius Muriée

In the Netherlands this would not be concidered the right way to map - lanes would be used instead (the N5 example above would be open for discussion). Is this the same in Belgium?
If so: has this been discussed before? What would be the best way to undo this?

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#2 2021-06-07 11:06:29

CouwelierTim
Member
Registered: 2018-01-08
Posts: 310

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

The N5 one is likely just wrong as well. Unless you actually can't move from 'Rue de Wayaux' to 'Rue de Namur'
I suppose an approach like here does give more marging to detail right of way, and where the traffic ligts are etc, but it's.. cluttered.

I can't generalise too much, but usually we don't split driving directions unless there is a physical barrier in between.

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#3 2021-06-07 11:29:11

joost schouppe
Moderator
Registered: 2013-11-11
Posts: 154
Website

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

Agree, this is wrong. Looks like it has been a while since these changes were made, so it might be quite hard to revert all this.

The user isn't really active anymore, but has never replied to changeset comments (see https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-dis … d=4451328). So it might be useful to put them on your watchlist.

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#4 2021-06-07 11:40:40

JeroenvanderGun
Member
Registered: 2020-10-23
Posts: 40

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

I suppose an approach like here does give more marging to detail right of way, and where the traffic ligts are etc, but it's.. cluttered.

If one makes proper use of tags with :forward, :backward, and :lanes suffix, and uses turn restriction relations, then in my experience there is practically no need to resort to separate ways.

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#5 2021-06-07 16:12:09

IIVQ
Member
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 802

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

I have tried to revert a few of his changesets, but the resulting way was still split and I have no idea what useful data I threw away. So I did not upload.
Any better ways than hard manual labour to fix this?

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#6 2021-06-07 18:05:01

IIVQ
Member
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 802

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

It is far, far worse than I thought. He also changed a lot of bus routes as in his "discussion"... However, he did a lof of good things adding platforms so there is almost no practical way to merge this but manual... I don't know whether I'm that committed to fixing :-(

I have done my best to fix the roads in Gosselies (Achavi):
* Rue du Fauboug (kept the separate ways where there is a oneway tramline - not the best option but also somewhat credible)
* Rue du Chemin de Fer
* Rue de Namur
* N5 south of Avenue des États-Unis and north of the A54
* Avenue Franklin Roosevelt
* Rue Astrid
* Place des combattants
* Rue Vandervelde - Rue du Spinois - Chaussée de Courcelles until Rue de la Ferté
* Faubourg de Charleroi
Because of the tram I also left the Rue des Émailleres and parts of the Rue du Calvaire in place as-is.

I fixed some severe routing errors - I'm surprised nobody noticed. I hope I did not re-introduce any new ones.

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#7 2021-06-07 18:49:30

IIVQ
Member
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 802

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

I also updated the area around the Avenue Paul Pasteur - Pont de Vilette in Charleroi

And the  Avenue Marie de Murée area

Last edited by IIVQ (2021-06-07 19:11:07)

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#8 2021-06-07 21:10:35

Arflha
Member
Registered: 2020-08-23
Posts: 13

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

I wasn't active on OSM as of now, but send me the places where this must be corected and I will correct them later this week (only for roads, I won't correct bus routes).
Mea-culpa.

Tournai has almost all its sidewalks mapped as separate lanes shouldn't this be corrected as well ?

Last edited by Arflha (2021-06-07 21:44:59)

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#9 2021-06-07 21:15:53

Jan Olieslagers
Member
From: B-3150
Registered: 2019-09-15
Posts: 221

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

Eh bien, le "mea culpa" n'est pas souvent entendu, ici ni ailleurs... Respect!

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#10 2021-06-07 21:58:10

IIVQ
Member
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 802

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

I also updated in the city-center of Charleroi
* Rue Olof Palme - Quai Paul Verlaine - Rue du Grand Central
* Avenue des Alliés
* Boulevard Jaques Bertrand et Boulevard de l'Yser
* Place des Jeux
* Blvd Paul Janson / Avenue de Waterloo / Rue Neuve
* Blvd Frans Dewandre / Avenue Joseph II

The reason I found this all out was that I also updated the city centre of Charleroi to be zone 30

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#11 2021-06-07 22:00:46

IIVQ
Member
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 802

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

Hello Arflha,
Thank you for responding and sorry for sounding so harsh, I have spent literally 4 hours fixing what you did...

But you also do a lot of good things, especially in your adding bus stops - this is something I really appreciate!
Are there things I/We can help you explain?

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#12 2021-06-07 22:17:47

Arflha
Member
Registered: 2020-08-23
Posts: 13

Re: user:Arflha changes normal roads in separate ways

IIVQ wrote:

Hello Arflha,
Thank you for responding and sorry for sounding so harsh, I have spent literally 4 hours fixing what you did...

But you also do a lot of good things, especially in your adding bus stops - this is something I really appreciate!
Are there things I/We can help you explain?

No problem, that's my fault.

Yep indeed I sent you PM on OSM ;-)

Last edited by Arflha (2021-06-07 22:18:20)

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