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#1 2021-05-31 13:46:20

nitinatsangsit
Member
From: Bangkok
Registered: 2020-04-03
Posts: 73

Turn restriction on blocked road

I have found that there was some users misusing the turn restriction relation. What they did, in my understanding, was set up a turn restriction relation to prevent the navigation app from directing them from one road to another that was physically restricted (for example, by a gate or a bollard) or by a security guard's prohibition since it was a private road.

For example, see https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/105469583

According to wiki, this isn't how a turn restriction relation work. There is no sign on the ground prohibiting them from turning; instead, they are simply prevented by a physical barrier. In these cases, the correct way is to simply add a barrier=* thing to a node.

AFAIK, these users include NattamonOn, Rung Putti, and arayamm. They started mapping on the same day (1 April 2021), thus I assume they're part of the same project crew. Of course, more OSM mappers are a good thing, but some poor practices need to be corrected before things get worse.

What I have already done is commented on each of their changesets separately. Unfortunately, none of them have responded, and they are continuing to do what they are doing.

Any idea?

Last edited by nitinatsangsit (2021-05-31 13:47:38)

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#2 2021-06-01 07:53:30

stephankn
Moderator
Registered: 2010-05-04
Posts: 624

Re: Turn restriction on blocked road

please try again sending the users a direct message. If they do not respond, send a request to data working group. They can force the users to read a note before continuing to edit.
In that case, please include a note for DWG to attach.

User names and location hint that mappers might be Thai. It could be that they are not confident in communicating in English. Could you add a translation in Thai?


Would be nice if you could share some recent photos of the on-the-ground situation. On aerial it looks not like a real residential road.

There is no mapillary imagery there. StreetView for reference:
https://www.google.com/maps/@14.3121833 … 384!8i8192

You certainly know the local situation better. Situations like the example on StreetView are better mapped with a barries, as you already suggested.

Such barriers are quite common in Thailand. We could discuss whether they are all classified correctly, but the main indication, that there is a barrier is fulfilled by all types. so either a

barrier=gate

or

barrier=sliding_gate

would be fine here. Maybe together with a restriction. Is it allowed or tolerated for motorbikes to shortcut here?

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#3 2021-06-01 09:39:38

nitinatsangsit
Member
From: Bangkok
Registered: 2020-04-03
Posts: 73

Re: Turn restriction on blocked road

stephankn wrote:

please try again sending the users a direct message.

Thanks. I just sent them a direct message, so we probably have to wait a while for a response.

Anyway, tagging these kind of blocked roads as left turn restriction makes no sense, because people from way 948051068 can still turn right onto way 904009262. So, how about making a right turn restriction as well?, not a good idea. If this is to be implemented, every main road must be divided into several small sections, together with several turn restrictions to prevent them from turning onto any small private service road. What a nightmare of messed-up data! The navigation app itself should be smart enough to avoid taking people through roads that were tagged with access=private or barrier=* (on node).

stephankn wrote:

Is it allowed or tolerated for motorbikes to shortcut here?

In this specific case, motorbikes should be able to pass.

Last edited by nitinatsangsit (2021-06-01 09:40:50)

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#4 2021-06-01 19:45:15

stephankn
Moderator
Registered: 2010-05-04
Posts: 624

Re: Turn restriction on blocked road

So to make it very clear. I don't think that these cases justify a turn restriction. And even if, as correctly pointed out, there is a restriction to right turn missing.

That gate should be mapped as such. And to reflect the specific case of motorbikes allowed, the access tags do map this.

The road is likely also no residential. It is just a few meters of compacted land where motorbikes shortcut. Maybe a service with unpaved surface tags.

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#5 2021-06-01 19:59:05

AlaskaDave
Member
From: Homer, Alaska ; Chiang Mai
Registered: 2013-09-21
Posts: 452
Website

Re: Turn restriction on blocked road

We spend a lot of time correcting this sort of overzealous mapping. I would just correct it, send an informative email or changeset comment, and be done with it. I realize changing the behavior of these mappers is desirable but I have not ever had much luck with that approach.

If they persist, have them blocked either temporarily or permanently. I don't have time for these constant corrections. I've run into some mapping anomalies here in Oregon (USA) that have discouraged me from mapping in some areas. It's simply too much work; contacting the mapper, explaining the issue, and hoping they will change their habits. Yikes! I'll just map something else.

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#6 2021-06-02 13:56:10

nitinatsangsit
Member
From: Bangkok
Registered: 2020-04-03
Posts: 73

Re: Turn restriction on blocked road

Sorry if my statement is a little misleading. I'm just annoyed by these users' poor behavior.

I just checked and they're still continue doing it, with no reaction to my message, so I sent them another message in Thai, hoping they'll see it and respond.

Last edited by nitinatsangsit (2021-06-03 11:34:03)

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#7 2021-06-03 11:33:26

nitinatsangsit
Member
From: Bangkok
Registered: 2020-04-03
Posts: 73

Re: Turn restriction on blocked road

Update: One of them just replied me. Hope things get better soon.

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