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#1 2018-11-13 17:40:45

bradrh
Member
Registered: 2013-06-20
Posts: 42

National Forest and BLM roads

OSM had come a long way in the last 5-10 years, but the biggest deficiency for my use is National forest and BLM roads.    It looks like there is some data out there which would help to speed this up and improve the accuracy.

If you go to this page:    https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php   and search for 'motor vehicle use map', and 'forest system roads', and forest system trails, it looks like there is some shape file data there that could be very useful.

Also some info here.
https://usfs.maps.arcgis.com/home/index.html
https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/

I'm willing to put some time into this, but I'm a GIS & OSM noob.   Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about this wants to take this on?   Or give me some pointers on how to do this.

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#2 2018-11-13 22:10:34

maxerickson
Member
Registered: 2016-11-18
Posts: 14

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

In the browser editor, you can activate the road layer as a tracing background.

Press 'b' to bring up the background settings and then scroll down to the overlays and choose the US forest road overlay.

Tracing the roads is quite a bit of work, but any way of integrating them well into osm will be quite a bit of work.

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#3 2018-11-13 23:08:29

bradrh
Member
Registered: 2013-06-20
Posts: 42

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

Weren't the roads imported from the tiger database with some batch method?   Tracing the roads doesn't seem like a good solution

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#4 2018-11-13 23:50:28

maxerickson
Member
Registered: 2016-11-18
Posts: 14

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

Sure, there's imports. Start with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines .

One of the challenges is that the batch method has to deal nicely with existing data. For example, here's a spot where I've used the imagery to improve on the USFS data:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/46.0222/-86.7343

There will be lots of areas like that where someone has already improved the map and the import would have to leave that better existing data (and also not duplicate it), not just wipe it out for expediency.

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#5 2018-11-14 15:26:52

SK53
Member
Registered: 2009-01-11
Posts: 627

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

Hi,

Unfortunately much of the mess with forest trails started with imports, and the generally used method for making things better is manual editing in association with various layers (particularly the USFS layer, but sometimes old Topo maps can be helpful resolving which logging roads are more significant). On-the-ground knowledge is superior to both: sometimes it's impossible to reconcile aerial images, the USFS map & topo map: either because several of the sources are out-of-date or because recent logging has taken place. (My last contributions have been in Central Oregon in an area where my family used to ranch, but which now appears much less populated than it was in the first half of C20).

Richard Fairhurst, owner of cycle.travel, has been doing extensive work on improving this type of highway so that his website produces sensible cycle routes. He may have specific advice too.

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#6 2018-11-15 17:49:21

bradrh
Member
Registered: 2013-06-20
Posts: 42

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

I'll continue to clean up my area, but I think there are way too many miles of roads and trails in the western US, and not enough OSM contributors to count on manual editing.   Also, an aerial image wouldn't help to pick out roads that have been closed.    In my area, there are legal roads that haven't been imported at all.

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#7 2021-04-07 16:03:08

Palolo
Member
Registered: 2015-12-04
Posts: 8

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

For updating roads and trails on USFS & BLM lands in Oregon the Department of Geology WMS lidar service is the most accurate location source. All imagery has distortions up to several meters, but lidar locations are surveyed within cm.
Use this WMS code in iD.
https://gis.dogami.oregon.gov/arcgis/se … =image/png

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#8 2021-04-22 01:20:32

Buster452
Member
From: Arizona
Registered: 2020-04-14
Posts: 34

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

How can I go about using this in JOSM?

Palolo wrote:

For updating roads and trails on USFS & BLM lands in Oregon the Department of Geology WMS lidar service is the most accurate location source. All imagery has distortions up to several meters, but lidar locations are surveyed within cm.
Use this WMS code in iD.
https://gis.dogami.oregon.gov/arcgis/se … =image/png

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#9 2021-04-22 15:21:47

Glassman
Member
From: Mount Vernon, WA
Registered: 2016-01-11
Posts: 14

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

JOSM has the ability to use WMS imagery. Look under the Imagery Preferences. Just select the WMS icon to add the imagery. Please note that the url provided by OP is incomplete.

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#10 2021-04-22 19:23:52

Buster452
Member
From: Arizona
Registered: 2020-04-14
Posts: 34

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

Ok, incomplete URL might explain why it's not working for me.



Glassman wrote:

JOSM has the ability to use WMS imagery. Look under the Imagery Preferences. Just select the WMS icon to add the imagery. Please note that the url provided by OP is incomplete.

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#11 2021-04-22 19:40:52

Buster452
Member
From: Arizona
Registered: 2020-04-14
Posts: 34

Re: National Forest and BLM roads

BTW, as a reply to the way back original post about importing the MVUM data from USFS.   

That would be a bad idea.   I've looked that that data and some of that is based on some old inaccurate scans of topo maps.  Not all of the roads in that data has been verified and can be significantly different from reality.   There are enough bad roads, tracks and trails in that data that a bulk import of all that data would make things much worse.

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