You are not logged in.

#1 2020-01-30 09:24:00

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 278

Russian mappers

Seems to have quite a few Russian mappers in Malaysia. You can detect them when they give road names without the "Jalan". Wonder where they get their data. Seen one near Pusat Belia dan Sukan Paroi, and another near Jalan Damai, Klang.

Also, please include your source for the road name if possible. Use the tag source:name for the road, especially for you out of state mappers. The sudden growth of road names in the past couple of years in OSM is rather surprising, and almost out of character for local mappers. I kinda knew what you did last summer... hmm

Nampaknya seperti ramai pulak mapper Russia kat sini. Hangpa boleh perasan bila diorang tulis nama highway/jalan tapi takdak "Jalan". Rasa2nya kat mana la diorang dapat info. Ada contoh kat area KBS Paroi, dan satu lagi kat Jalan Damai, Klang.

Sayugia itu, tolong masukkan sekala sumber nama jalan kalau boleh. Gunakan tag source:name utk jalan tersebut, lebih2 lagi untuk hangpa yg dari luar negara. Penambahan mendadak nama-nama jalan semenjak tahun kebelakangan ini di OSM agak memeranjatkan, dan agak janggal dengan adat kebiasaan pemeta-pemeta tempatan. Hangpa jgn buat pedaje dok salin dari abang besar noo, nnt habis kosong balik peta negara ni kena padam

Offline

#2 2020-01-31 14:03:07

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 266
Website

Re: Russian mappers

kucai wrote:

Nampaknya seperti ramai pulak mapper Russia kat sini. Hangpa boleh perasan bila diorang tulis nama highway/jalan tapi takdak "Jalan". Rasa2nya kat mana la diorang dapat info. Ada contoh kat area KBS Paroi, dan satu lagi kat Jalan Damai, Klang.

Sayugia itu, tolong masukkan sekala sumber nama jalan kalau boleh. Gunakan tag source:name utk jalan tersebut, lebih2 lagi untuk hangpa yg dari luar negara. Penambahan mendadak nama-nama jalan semenjak tahun kebelakangan ini di OSM agak memeranjatkan, dan agak janggal dengan adat kebiasaan pemeta-pemeta tempatan. Hangpa jgn buat pedaje dok salin dari abang besar noo, nnt habis kosong balik peta negara ni kena padam

Berlambak, kat Kedah pun ada. SP, Kulim semua ada. Dah report yang SP tu, maka abam Dee Dabliu Ji pun *srapppp* *srapppp* la. Saspek mengaku salah tibai habis barang milik Algugul.

Offline

#3 2020-01-31 19:25:50

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 1,000

Re: Russian mappers

kucai wrote:

nnt habis kosong balik peta

In case you think of Google being used as an improper source, just point the guys to my rant on the quality of Google Maps in Thailand: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=68363 Too many road names / road numbers there are just wrong!

On the other hand, there may be acceptable data sources like Mapillary. Just took a look at a residential quarter of Sungai Petani, I could not read road names from the images there...

Offline

#4 2020-02-01 12:26:52

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 278

Re: Russian mappers

Bernhard Hiller wrote:
kucai wrote:

nnt habis kosong balik peta

In case you think of Google being used as an improper source, just point the guys to my rant on the quality of Google Maps in Thailand: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=68363 Too many road names / road numbers there are just wrong!

On the other hand, there may be acceptable data sources like Mapillary. Just took a look at a residential quarter of Sungai Petani, I could not read road names from the images there...

Right, even the Grab initiated Openstreetcam in Klang Valley consisted of many blurry images, just like what I see without my glasses on. Well, that's dashcam sensor limitation I guess. Also, there are issues with shortsightedness of contractors/road transport in recognizing the appropriate size of road name signboards, especially when they started the dual alphabet signs. You could barely read the name beyond 10 meters if you are driving, much less getting lucky snapping a sharp photo of the sign.

I contemplated of getting higher resolution photos, then downsample to 2K and sharpen, but batch processing those hundreds/thousands of photos and uploading them would probably set my AMD FX on fire.

Regarding Google - if I have my hunches right, the map of Malaysia would probably be sparse due to copyright removal. I just can't contemplate those hours that I already put into this mapping taken away just like that, therefore I plead ignorance.:cool:

Offline

#5 2020-02-03 16:47:51

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 115

Re: Russian mappers

Emm, thats what I had seen some road names in Kulim are in Jl. form, probably from unknown source. Kaart editor also cover some of the area of Kulim and this might help, but like what your all said, some PBT/JKR signboard are suck, even I zoom in but still cannot read the alphabet. (Some can use Malay terminology to guess e.g. Mawa seems like be Mawar, I cannot read most roadsign in Batu Pahat cuz their Jalan is in yellow colour, and even mosaic by Mapillary stream, Jawi alphabet are better but need to take a lot of time. Taman signboard also same, some signboard are not readable and only MBSP doing the best job in Taman signboard, you can easily identify the place e.g. Taman Budiman without zoom in and readable during night. Other PBT should do this also ) IMO, black/white color font make sense to recognize, PBT like Klang/Batu Pahat's road sign only can be recognize through ground survey.

Offline

#6 2020-02-03 17:00:15

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 115

Re: Russian mappers

Offline

#7 2020-02-04 04:36:48

jackSamad
Member
Registered: 2018-03-02
Posts: 8

Re: Russian mappers

kucai wrote:
Bernhard Hiller wrote:
kucai wrote:

nnt habis kosong balik peta

In case you think of Google being used as an improper source, just point the guys to my rant on the quality of Google Maps in Thailand: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=68363 Too many road names / road numbers there are just wrong!

On the other hand, there may be acceptable data sources like Mapillary. Just took a look at a residential quarter of Sungai Petani, I could not read road names from the images there...

Right, even the Grab initiated Openstreetcam in Klang Valley consisted of many blurry images, just like what I see without my glasses on. Well, that's dashcam sensor limitation I guess. Also, there are issues with shortsightedness of contractors/road transport in recognizing the appropriate size of road name signboards, especially when they started the dual alphabet signs. You could barely read the name beyond 10 meters if you are driving, much less getting lucky snapping a sharp photo of the sign.

I contemplated of getting higher resolution photos, then downsample to 2K and sharpen, but batch processing those hundreds/thousands of photos and uploading them would probably set my AMD FX on fire.

Regarding Google - if I have my hunches right, the map of Malaysia would probably be sparse due to copyright removal. I just can't contemplate those hours that I already put into this mapping taken away just like that, therefore I plead ignorance.:cool:

Grab owns Openstreetcam! (read their terms & conditions) yikes

Offline

#8 2020-06-13 09:07:16

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 266
Website

Re: Russian mappers

jackSamad wrote:

Grab owns Openstreetcam! (read their terms & conditions) yikes

Yup! Check out the label of the "seller" or "developer" on Google Play Store and Apple App Store.

Back to the topic:

Recently the DWG was in touch with some of them. Someone admitted their sins (taking things from H***W*G* for example), and is guilty as charged. Expect data wipes sooner or later.

Consider yourself warned. Kalau kantoi pulak lagi lepas ni, sorry naik lori.

There was a complaint written somewhere earlier this year. I'll share the link if I found it.

[Later edit] There you go. Original post in Russian. Translation from Google Translate.

[Later, later edit] Redaction's done. Sort of.

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2020-06-15 03:56:49)

Offline

#9 2020-07-19 21:19:16

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 115

Re: Russian mappers

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset … 1/101.4249 This user added Google as the source, should we keep it?

Offline

#10 2020-07-20 14:16:08

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 266
Website

Re: Russian mappers

angys wrote:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset … 1/101.4249 This user added Google as the source, should we keep it?

This user used to be a part of the first wave of Grab/GlobalLogic mapping team.

Anyhow, smash the report button. Don't forget to provide proof as well, and let the Data Working Group do their magic.

uc?export=view&id=1Walc_edpYJY5FqruAGe3PFRZx66jDstg

Offline

#11 2020-07-20 16:07:00

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 115

Re: Russian mappers

Thanks for telling this, that russian mapper and him alreday reported. Hope that in the future will have a local mapper in Klang, and also hope Kaart Team to fix those road names in Klang.

AkuAnakTimur wrote:
angys wrote:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset … 1/101.4249 This user added Google as the source, should we keep it?

This user used to be a part of the first wave of Grab/GlobalLogic mapping team.

Anyhow, smash the report button. Don't forget to provide proof as well, and let the Data Working Group do their magic.

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view … RZx66jDstg

Offline

#12 2020-07-21 13:37:47

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 278

Re: Russian mappers

I should start a list too, but that's a lot of work trying to get all the data together as a report. I've seen paid mappers from every organization doing the suspicious copy thing. One of these days, god willing.

Offline

#13 2020-07-21 23:55:45

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 115

Re: Russian mappers

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/141944627 How can that user put hire as a source?

Offline

#14 2020-07-22 00:24:22

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,392

Re: Russian mappers

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (does anyone even remember that as an analogy?) please comment on potential problem changesets asking questions about sources, etc.  Currently there is nothing at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-disc … id=7778913 .

Offline

#15 2020-08-01 15:07:48

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,392

Re: Russian mappers

I've commented on a couple of changesets.  These will appear shortly at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-disc … id=7778913 .

Offline

#16 2020-08-01 15:44:01

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 266
Website

Re: Russian mappers

SomeoneElse wrote:

I've commented on a couple of changesets.  These will appear shortly at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-disc … id=7778913 .

Many thanks for your response. It's probably just my hunch, but usually strange mappers from Russia (unless they're actual visitors to the country - pre-pandemic times) would concentrate on an area, and suddenly added tons of street names for highways without one previously - might be copying from elsewhere. Some obvious red flag includes copying abbreviations as it is (might almost got caught red-handed).

And then it's almost always with a changeset comment of "new road".

Samples:

I usually would leave some changeset discussion, but apparently I'm not getting any reply.

This one had stopped mapping altogether when I did the same. Checked with this tool, it's really out of place seeing someone actively mapping this part of the country (the username itself is in Russian), and the editor is set in the Russian language.

Offline

#17 2020-08-01 16:25:00

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,392

Re: Russian mappers

Some "similar mappers" in this area have already been redacted.  https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/337052470/history is an example of that - you can see that some object versions in the history just link to https://www.openstreetmap.org/redactions/19 .  If any redacted names seem to be "reappearing" then obviously we (the DWG) will want to take an interest.

What I'd encourage everyone to do, if they see "new" mappers adding names from a source that seems unlikely (such as "Bing aerial") is to please ask what the source of the names was.  If they don't reply within a week or so, tell the DWG about them.  I've commented on a couple just now (you can see those at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-disc … &commented , although of course you'll see all my other comments in there).

If it appears that there are a number of other mappers that need to have edits reverted and also maybe redacted, then we'll be better able to do that once we have a list of all the users concerned - reverts get messy if done piecemeal.

Best Regards,

Andy

Offline

#18 2020-08-02 02:54:56

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 278

Re: Russian mappers

SomeoneElse wrote:

Some "similar mappers" in this area have already been redacted.  https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/337052470/history is an example of that - you can see that some object versions in the history just link to https://www.openstreetmap.org/redactions/19 .  If any redacted names seem to be "reappearing" then obviously we (the DWG) will want to take an interest.

What I'd encourage everyone to do, if they see "new" mappers adding names from a source that seems unlikely (such as "Bing aerial") is to please ask what the source of the names was.  If they don't reply within a week or so, tell the DWG about them.  I've commented on a couple just now (you can see those at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-disc … &commented , although of course you'll see all my other comments in there).

If it appears that there are a number of other mappers that need to have edits reverted and also maybe redacted, then we'll be better able to do that once we have a list of all the users concerned - reverts get messy if done piecemeal.

Best Regards,

Andy

They seemed already caught up with the game. Their answers would be " I know the area". But when you begin checking, you'll see that they put more than dozens of street names, in areas reaching hundred of kilometers away, all during one day mapping. To suggest that these were added after repeated excursions out there to gather street names and what not is a little shaky at best.

Now, how many of you memorize more than a few actual road names around where you live. You might now quite a few around where you live, but not at some place way out there for what it seems to encompass the whole neighborhood.

My suggestions for those with deep knowledge of how overpass work:
1) search by name/hash UTMMapathon (or something similar mapathons held in malaysia)
2) filter out users that put street names in their edits
3) see how many street names they add during their one day mapping.

Just my conspiratorial mind at work. big_smile:D

Offline

#19 2020-08-02 06:17:35

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 266
Website

Re: Russian mappers

kucai wrote:

Now, how many of you memorize more than a few actual road names around where you live

Assuming the street signs are still intact and not vandalised (or broken)...

In older housing estates built pre-millenium, some might even stick to an address format just like this:

House Number
Name of housing estate
Name of nearest major street
Postcode, and nearest major densely populated town or city

... without any mention of the adjacent residential highway.

Offline

#20 2020-10-04 19:54:23

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,392

Re: Russian mappers

We've just had a reply at https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79397346 - "My uncle asked me to name this street. Since he lives there".

I've asked about another one.

Offline

#21 2020-10-05 04:06:25

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 278

Re: Russian mappers

SomeoneElse wrote:

We've just had a reply at https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79397346 - "My uncle asked me to name this street. Since he lives there".

I've asked about another one.

Hey, who are we to judge. He/she got many uncles everywhere, also probably one named Sam in the states. lol

Offline

#22 2020-10-24 04:03:05

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 266
Website

Re: Russian mappers

SomeoneElse wrote:

We've just had a reply at https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79397346 - "My uncle asked me to name this street. Since he lives there".

I've asked about another one.

Same vibes coming from this mapper. Suspiciously mapped the name of many, I dare say probably 1000 or more unnamed highways around the city of Kulim, Kedah - numbers assumed from ~550 changesets.

uc?export=view&id=1Xb0p3OJ_VBJsvhp0OXoMKv0XZEZ_dldx

When asked about the source, the mapper simply just said they were from "[a] friend, [who] is [a] taxi driver, and know streets well". Wow, someone who knew 1000+ street names by heart (right).

The dead giveaways were as clear as the day: abbreviations of street names were inputted instead of typing the full street name. It's another red flag for me, because it seemed like this mapper had likely lifted these names from a map database, rather than a real person, if it's even true (no one in Malaysia abbreviates Jalan - Street -- as simply "Jl").

Up until today, the said map database is a mystery, personally. This is because, even popular map providers with coverage in Malaysia, do not even use these kind of eccentric abbreviations (only maps of Indonesia do that IIRC).

kucai wrote:

Hey, who are we to judge. He/she got many uncles everywhere, also probably one named Sam in the states. lol

Uncle Roger, got many nieces and nephews.

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2020-10-24 04:07:32)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB