create Malaysian_tagging_guidelines at OSMwiki

I would like to create a new list for Malaysia, and also standardize place tagging by this year. After 2020 cencus had done, the population also will be updated. But before this, some details need to be discuss:
1.Admin level
Place tag should placed at center of the area, except PBT admin center (e.g. Sepang at its MP Sepang office)
2-Country (Malaysia)
3-Sabah/Sarawak (if government declare those 2 states as region)
4-States and Wilayah Persekutuan
5-For East Malaysia: Division/Bahagian, For Penang:PBT (Majlis Bandaraya)
6-District
7-PBT that under/crossing two district
-list (Kulim Hi-Tech, Selama, Batu Gajah, Lenggong, Gerik, Pengkalan Hulu, Ampang Jaya, Subang Jaya, Petaling Jaya, Selayang, Shah Alam, Kajang, Hnag Tuah Jaya, Melaka City, MP Jasin, MP Alor Gajah, Labis, Yong Peng, Simpang Renggam, Iskandar Puteri, Kulai, MB Johor Bahru, Pasir Gudang, Pengerang, Ketereh)
-Subdistrict (Lojing, Selama and those in East Malaysia)
8-Mukims(translation in English is townships/parish)/Bandar(town)/Pekan(small town) that are listed in UPI system (e.g. Mukim Sanglang, Bandar Arau, Pekan Kuala Perlis)
9-Section/Bandar that are not listed in UPI system (e.g. Seksyen 7, Shah Alam or Bandar Puncak Alam)
10-Taman/Kampung/Parit/Long

Corresponding place tag
2-as usual
4-as usual(

place=state

)
5-

place=region

for East Malaysia,

place=city

for George Town (Pulau Pinang) and Seberang Perai
6-

place=district

, but since this tag are not rendered, may use

place=county

for an alternative tagging
7-For Subdistrict, same as 6
-For PBT, please refer to below
-Majlis Bandaraya (West Malaysia):

place=city

population=

 -list (Alor Setar, George Town, Seberang Perai, Ipoh, Subang Jaya, Shah Alam, Petaling Jaya, Kuala Lumpur, Seremban, Melaka City, Iskandar Puteri, Johor Bahru, Kuala Terengganu, Kuantan)
 -Majlis Perbandaran (West Malaysia):

place=city

note=population no need to put in, in view of huge-population municipals (e.g. Selayang) will shade more significant cities

  -Majlis Daerah (West Malaysia):

place=town

population=

, for district capital (e.g. population of Hulu Terengganu will be placed in Kuala Berang, as it represent the whole district and can differrent with other major towns)
–alternative solution, for district capital (e.g. population of Bandar Kuala Berang only will be placed in Kuala Berang)
-Special PBT (e.g. Kulim Hi-Tech):

place=suburb

population=

8-Mukims:no tags for current due to its usage is not popular (especially for Penang, it is not possible to put place for e.g. Mukim 11 around Penang)
  -Bandar:

place=town

population=

  -Pekan:

place=town

note=population no need to put in

   except for Majlis Bandaraya, place town should not be used as all the area is under a city purview
   -places that should put 

place=town

for Majlis Bandaraya (special case)
-Alor Setar (Pokok Sena, Kuala Kedah), -George Town (Bayan Lepas and Balik Pulau only)
-Seberang Perai (Kepala Batas, Tasek Gelugor, Butterworth, Permatang Pauh, Bukit Mertajam, Simpang Ampat, Batu Kawan, Nibong Tebal due to it is a cooperate city for 3 districts)
-Subang Jaya (Seri Kembangan, Puchong) -Petaling Jaya (Damansara) -Seremban (Nilai, Lenggeng, Mantin, Labu, Senawang) -Iskandar Puteri (Gelang Patah, Skudai) -Johor Bahru (Tebrau, Ulu Tiram), Pasir Gudang (Masai), Kuantan (Gambang, Indera Mahkota), Kuala Terengganu (Batu Rakit, Kuala Nerus, Bukit Payong)

9-

place=suburb

, basically, locals will not say, I am from xxx (suburb) first,but its town (e.g. I am from Kuala Lumpur, not Sungai Besi)
10-

place=neighbourhood

for Taman and

place=hamlet

for Kampung, in view of many kampungs with village tag will shaded other towns and neighbourhood (especially in Wikimaps) *Noted (Not suitable for Kedah, Kelantan, Terengganu, Sabah and Sarawak due to some kampungs (e.g. Kampung Raja) actually are townships)

East Malaysia part
-Division seat that is Majlis Bandaraya:

place=city

population=

-Division seat that is Majlis Perbandaran:

place=city, to different from other townships, even though its population are lesser

note=population no need to put in

-District seat (e.g. Bau, Kuching):

place=town

population=

-Non district seat (e.g. Santubong, Kuching):

place=town

note=population no need to put in

2.Transport (Follow current tagging, some area need to reclassify based on importances, no name for motorway junction, and living streets should not tag in Malaysia)

Thats all, FYI, I had did a touchup at Perlis state, later I will create a list for every town in Malaysia (in progress, can be discuss based on local mappers experience and ground imagery), other than that should not tagged as

place=town

For my definition, a “town” should at lease have a pharmacy, bank, (post office/clinic/police station), that shows mature infracstructure development, and apart of other town (e.g. Jelutong, Penang is connected with other area, and belongs to George Town (Penang) urban build-up area, so it is not a town anymore but more to a suburb (although it fulfill all the qualities), based on my own observation)

I hope we can achieve a consensus，so that OSM maps in Malaysia looks neat and let users find a place easier. All these ideas took me a couple of time to figure out, so I’d like to hear all yours opinions.

Some info about Bandar in Malaysia (based on https://www.mycensus.gov.my/banci/www/index.php?&id=3&page_id=40&filename=penerbitan&aid=57)
Definisi Kawasan Bandar

5.1

Takrif kawasan bandar yang digunakan dalam banci-banci dahulu merujuk
kepada kawasan yang diwartakan dan bilangan penduduk tertentu. Kriteria
yang telah digunakan dalam Banci Penduduk 1970, 1980 dan 1991 untuk
mengkelaskan sesuatu kawasan yang diwartakan sebagai kawasan bandar
ialah ianya harus mempunyai penduduk 10,000 orang atau lebih.

5.2

Banci Penduduk dan Perumahan Malaysia 2000 telah mentakrifkan kawasan
bandar sama seperti tahun 1991 sebagai:-

Kawasan yang diwartakan serta kawasan tepubina yang
bersempadan dengannya dan gabungan kedua-dua kawasan ini
mempunyai sejumlah penduduk seramai 10,000 atau lebih semasa
Banci Penduduk 2000.

Kawasan tepubina ditakrifkan sebagai kawasan yang terletak bersebelahan
kawasan yang diwartakan dan mempunyai sekurang-kurangnya 60 peratus
penduduk (berumur 10 tahun dan lebih) yang terlibat dalam aktiviti bukan
pertanian dan unit-unit perumahan mempunyai kemudahan tandas moden.

list of all PBT and towns (West Malaysia) in Malaysia
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QlncyjofsdhqrrMZC4dd8UtxRxj-KXGL3tfQk0OWc_A/edit?usp=sharing
A-City+population
B-City
C-Town+population (Main town)
D-Town
e denotes East Malaysia

It’s all nice and dandy IF we can actually get the official district lines.

If not, those boundaries are just probably google extracts and some wild ass guesses. Or sinar project for that matter.

Any discussion about this? for now?

Something is not right with this. I live in Ampang. And Ampang Jaya certainly doesn’t cover the whole east part of Klang Valley, and the portion that makes it a ‘city’ is dubious at best. Now, to put in pbt as an admin level also needs scrutiny since the addressing will go bonkers.

For example:

where in malaysia do you have address that include pbt? It is true that it might be a nominatim problem, but putting ampang jaya to encommpass everything is not accurate either.

Besides that, where does this sinar project gets their local municipal boundary lines from?

My advice is to go slow and do it right. There are pressures from companies to make the map pretty at a faster pace, but pretty doesn’t equal to accurate (or useful for that matter in some cases).

Why don’t you create a draft (or early work) on your OSM Wiki userpage first and let everyone see the visualisation of your idea.

Good idea, I think I will create it before 2020 cencus.

What a good initiative Angys. It’s sorely needed. Here’s my two cents.

There’s a need to make the terms obvious for new mappers. For example. Nobody understands what a hamlet is (except for people who live in the UK I presume). Many parts of USJ, for example, USJ 1,2,3, etc is labeled as a hamlet rather than a neighbourhood. Then there’s the use of quarters, which again, few people will understand, rather than a neighbourhood.

I understand that only mappers will see these terms, not the general public. But if terms are obvious and based on a local understanding of what the terms are, we will avoid a lot of the mapping mistakes that newbies (like myself) will make.

In the meantime, I struggle with defining certain areas:
Taman Tun Dr. Ismail is a residential area, when it’s only partially a residential area (possibly making it confusing for newbies trying to label an area). Whereas other areas of similar size to TTDI like Mont Kiara and Bukit Damansara are labeled a Suburb.

The reason why I really need to clarify this is because I run a website that helps you find your neighbours who run home based businesses (like home cooks and home bakers), and accurate location data is really important since it’s a neighbour thing. So unfortunately right now, when people tag where they live in Subang, they’re mistakenly tagged as in Shah Alam as well. https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=subang#map=14/3.1505/101.5312

Looking for your advice here guys. This map definition is something I can help to drive because it’s so important to us as a small business. Well…More like I can help to create the “Idiot’s Guide to Map Areas.” To help new mappers who need to know how to fix problems like what Subang is facing, even when there’s a lack of mapping data available. And a good start is to properly define what is a City, Town, Suburb, Neighbourhood is, with multiple examples to help new mappers. And hopefully not use terms that only non-Malaysians will understand.

Thanks guys!

OpenStreetMap’s origins is from the UK. Therefore terms related to populated areas would automatically be in British English, e.g. place=suburb! Some mappers thought suburbs would mean well-developed townships, not enclosed in a city/town (which is actually in the American way of thinking it), when it actually means (in the UK sense) an area near the outskirts (not totally outside) of cities/towns… hopefully you get what I mean.

I would argue that the TTDI area might be a suburb by itself, but the last time I live anywhere near Klang Valley was almost a decade ago! So, if I would contribute to write a Wiki about how to tag places… since I live in Kedah with its small cities, and here, there and almost everywhere are paddy fields, then I might write something totally out-of-touch. Long story short, hopefully there will be some active mappers in Klang Valley itself…

Ideally, it would be the best if there are open data from the (state and/or federal government) with no strings attached - which means it’s possible for a copy of any geodata to be imported into OpenStreetMap and then the data from OSM can be redistributed freely without someone has to go find a lawyer. Then it may solve the woes of misleading reverse geocoding.

Well, I used to spend some time improving Wiki entries related to Malaysia. Actually, I thought the Wiki entries in English might suffice (for new mappers), therefore I have had planned to translate some key pages into Malay. Alas, things didn’t go as planned (hot hot chicken poop)…

By the way, I’m glad you had found the forum to speak your mind. At least, if I have the time to draft something similar, there would be some ideas to consider. No promises, though. Please do ask almost anything in the forum - make yourself comfortable.

I know that guy.
Don’t know why he insists on that tag when there are already many examples of neighborhood/village usage. Besides, the explanation of those tags are easy to understand on OSM wiki.

These would explain 90%++ of what’s already in use in Malaysia. Users need to dive in into the individual pages, as well as the discussion page to get the nuances of each tag though.