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#1 2020-06-20 22:59:31

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass multi airstrip airfield that looks like it has a military history?

The barriers look like they once were able to close off public footpaths that crossed the grass airstrips.
One local resident told me that their had heard it was an emergency / crash designated airfield.

Please see attachment.
Pic 1 shows a metal frame you have to step though, probably had a gate on it once.
The 2nd pic shows the barrier in an L shape, again probably had a gate on it once.

Please see links below

Gateway 1
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmYoq0-eVsBUgQ2R4L6 … r?e=zeGe9T

Gateway 2
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmYoq0-eVsBUgQ7rYX4 … t?e=FDzVsa

Thanks
James

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#2 2020-06-21 06:07:00

Jan Olieslagers
Member
From: B-3150
Registered: 2019-09-15
Posts: 85

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

As I understand it, they do not impede ingress or passage, so perhaps not map them like an actual barrier or gate. If they must be mapped at all, I would suggest an historic:whatever=gate tagging.
Out of curiosity: where is this?

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#3 2020-06-21 08:06:50

BCNorwich
Member
From: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2010-07-31
Posts: 126

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Hi,

I think these are stiles on footpaths, public footpaths are suggested from the waymarks in the pictures.

Again from the pictures possibly tag as barrier=stile, material=metal and stile=stepover.

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#4 2020-06-21 16:17:42

SK53
Member
Registered: 2009-01-11
Posts: 515

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

I'd certainly tag the first as barrier=stile stile=stepover, the second is more akin to cycle barriers.

Interesting images, perhaps you could upload them to the wiki to provide some visual context for more unusual types of stiles & other footpath furniture.

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#5 2020-06-21 22:02:14

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Thanks for your replies so far.

The location is "East Haxted Farm Airfield" which is just West of a small town called Edenbridge in Kent in the UK.

I have attached the link to a screenshot showing Gate 1 as the Blue point and Gate 2 as the red point.
As you can see it is very unusual for a Grass airfield to have 4 Airstrips and 3 long Taxi ways.
Yesterday i noticed 3 of the 4 airstrips had recently had the grass cut and their were 2 Windsocks up.

East Haxted Farm Airfield

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmYoq0-eVsBUgQ_aeHI … 2?e=4fbsRB

The gates have been there a long time. Gate 1 has some trees that have grown through and around the bars (just out of shot).

I am a bit of a fan of historic aviation so it would be nice to include them from the historical point of view.

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#6 2020-06-21 22:28:23

Jan Olieslagers
Member
From: B-3150
Registered: 2019-09-15
Posts: 85

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Ha, how funny a coincidence! You might wish to consult this web page:
http://www.ukairfieldguide.net/airfield … axted-Farm
and/or contact the website operator, who is deeply entangled with the history of aviation terrains in the British Isles.

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#7 2020-06-22 11:09:52

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Thanks, I will try to contact the website operator and share some of the photos I took.

Could anyone advise how I insert a Windsock?
I have attempted to insert 2 of them but neither are showing on OSM. So far I have

Feature = Windsock
Tag - Aeroway=Windsock

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#8 2020-06-22 11:35:02

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

These are my most recent attempts

Update WIndsock
Edited 5 minutes ago by James787
Version #3 · Changeset #86974351
Location: 51.1866607, 0.0473228


Edited 14 minutes ago by James787
Version #2 · Changeset #86973798
Location: 51.1906082, 0.0468152

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#9 2020-06-22 12:20:51

PHerison
Member
From: Rhein-Main
Registered: 2008-04-04
Posts: 1,571

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

James787 wrote:

Update WIndsock

aeroway=windsock is correct: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag … 3Dwindsock
It seems that the standard OSM-Map doesn't render this feature.

Also, please check if there is a sign next to the windsock saying "Windsock". If not please remove the name-tag (see various discussions about misusing name-Tag to force text appearing on the map, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nam … name_only).

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#10 2020-06-22 12:58:21

Jan Olieslagers
Member
From: B-3150
Registered: 2019-09-15
Posts: 85

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

I totally agree that the "name=Windsock" is probably incorrect; it is, regrettably, a quite common error. I have removed handsfull of "name=hangar", "name=control tower" and more such from aerodromes all over Europe. Even worse was the chap who added "icao=LFxx" to lots of windsocks and control towers in France.
What I would find acceptable, and sometimes apply, is a "description=" but for a windsock that would add no value since there already is an "aeroway=windsock".

And no, the standard renderer does not honour the "aeroway=windsock", it is very poor at rendering aerodromes anyway. I am developping a python script that does use the information, but it is far from being good enough for publication.

Last edited by Jan Olieslagers (2020-06-22 13:18:13)

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#11 2020-06-22 14:11:37

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Thanks PHerison and Jan Olieslagers for " seems that the standard OSM-Map doesn't render this feature". I guess this explains it.

I have removed the "name=Windsock" tags as suggested.

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#12 2020-06-22 17:59:02

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Just out of interest, i have notice other features, such as Flowerbed or Barrier=Entrance (in a Wall) do not render in OSM.

Is there a reason why such features do not appear?

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#13 2020-06-22 18:08:27

Jan Olieslagers
Member
From: B-3150
Registered: 2019-09-15
Posts: 85

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

I cannot be sure, but it seems obvious to me that this is a deliberate and somewhat arbitrary choice by the programmers of the renderer. It should be considered a secondary point, as is all of the renderer, and the maps it produces: the primary goal of OSM is to create and maintain a database of geographical information.

Also, the database contains such a wealth of detail, in places, that to render them all would make the map fully unreadable; so choices had to be made. I feel sure there must be lots of discussion on what to render and what not; and there will and can be no set of choices that satisfies everybody.

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#14 2020-06-22 18:58:09

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

.."there will and can be no set of choices that satisfies everybody" ...  that sounds quite likely, thanks.

On another topic. With OSM zoomed out, where an area of woodland has a name in green, such as 'Selsdon Wood' has has that name been applied?
see link.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmYoq0-eVsBUgREpvGH … C?e=6P3WfE

The name is not specified in the feature 'Natural Wood'.
I am interested as other areas of Woodland i can see do not seemed to be named so i am wondering how to add their names.

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#15 2020-06-22 18:59:50

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Sorry typing mistake,....  where an area of woodland has a name in green, such as 'Selsdon Wood', how has that name been applied to OSM?

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#16 2020-06-22 19:24:52

Jan Olieslagers
Member
From: B-3150
Registered: 2019-09-15
Posts: 85

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Take a look at https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/236643480
And next time please give coordinates instead of a link to one or other silly mischievous web service smile
Mind you: as has already been pointed out, the "name=" tag should only be used if well supported, either by local signage or by a reference to some more or less official documentation.
And by the way: we all commit typos now and then, but we all have the option to correct them, too. No need to post a separate reply to mention and correct such a minor error, it is much better to "edit" the erroneous message.

Last edited by Jan Olieslagers (2020-06-22 19:35:42)

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#17 2020-06-23 00:50:02

James787
Member
Registered: 2020-06-16
Posts: 11

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Thanks. I had a look at the link you attached above but i am not quite sure how the area in Orange was selected. i can't seem to access that area in Edit mode that shows those Tags.
There is obviously still lots I need to learn about OSM.
Are there any sites / links you can suggest for someone fairly new to OSM to learn more about making updates correctly?

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#18 2020-06-23 01:29:37

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,333

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

The area in orange was selected because the URL use to access it pointed to a specific object in OSM https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/236643480 rather than just the general area https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.3380/-0.0381.

To get a link to an object in OSM zoom in, then click the "question mark" icon at the right and then click something on the map.  For example, one of the footpaths in Selsdon Wood is https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/15747 … 7/-0.04844.

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#19 2020-06-24 07:26:06

Jan Olieslagers
Member
From: B-3150
Registered: 2019-09-15
Posts: 85

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Perhaps your essential hurdle is that you think you are editing a picture. This is not the case: you are editing a database, and an image is presented to you of the effects of your editing. The database is a collection of nodes and ways and relations, and from this database the generic map is produced by a process called "the renderer". Many other applications also consult this database, to do their own things with it.

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#20 2020-06-24 10:27:48

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,333

Re: How to classify metal gate barriers on edge of grass airfield?

Just to answer an earlier question:

James787 wrote:

Just out of interest, i have notice other features, such as Flowerbed or Barrier=Entrance (in a Wall) do not render in OSM.

Is there a reason why such features do not appear?

Pretty much anythng that people can add gets rendered somewhere.  The four map styles available at openstreetmap.org itself are just four of probably several thousand.  There's a list of others (including things that aren't maps) at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lis … d_services.

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