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#1 2020-05-25 10:34:32

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 105

Traffic signal ref

Just noticed that some areas put name for traffic signals. Do we need to add this useless feature into OSM actually? For Persimpangan I think only appy for big interchange/intersection is enough. Junction should be reduced. Imagine you go to work and pass 10 junction with names. Persimpangan Taman Putra, Persimpangan Jalan Bakawali/Jalan Ehsan. And maybe after this someone would like to add ref code or name for every road lamps right? Too detail actually. Just my 2 cents and I hope someone can answer my question. And Hari Raya Aidilfitri to all the Muslim mappers in OSM.

Example 1: [https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4597550859#map=16/5.3957/100.4178 BM17, Ok I know BM is for Bukit Mertajam, but who will notice this except you are the traffic light maintainer. This reference code even not display in Mapnik OSM. So it seems like a syok (or useless, highway refcode are pretty useful) feature for us mapper. If you all wish to add this, I can add also e.g. around Pasar Awam Taman Selamat got BM123 (actually is 137 see here https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=5.32 … 3036738438, that means SPT got at least 137 traffic signal codes to fillin), sounds good and fancy but even cannot find it in the address space. You only find a lot of Along ads at the tiang2]

Example 2:[https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1076906925#map=13/4.5962/101.0807 In Ipoh someone had add names for city core traffic light.]

Last edited by angys (2020-05-25 17:24:59)

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#2 2020-05-25 12:54:57

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 256

Re: Traffic signal ref

You complaining about ground truth?

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#3 2020-05-25 14:35:15

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 251
Website

Re: Traffic signal ref

Well, OpenStreetMap goes beyond data related to street anyways. I see those, I map those (e.g. mapped traffic light in Kedah with reference codes).

Not all junctions have names, so somehow assume it's going to be utilised in an unexpected way in the future, if it's not now.

If everything is not displayed in Mapnik (e.g. highway milestones - and see how far they are mapped in Kedah)... that sounds like begging me to stop mapping things that deemed so undesireable.

Also, if an app is going to display (or announce) those annoying junction names, well, the best thing to do is let the developers know that their navigation app should be changed to reflect what the end users tend to like. It means us OpenStreetMap contributors shouldn't bend the data too hard to follow an app exclusively.

And also, for the sake of using OSM in mobile apps, developers should know how to sanitise the raw data properly (see my previous point).

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#4 2020-05-25 14:47:16

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 105

Re: Traffic signal ref

kucai wrote:

You complaining about ground truth?

No no, I just wonder do wee need to add this feature to Malaysia OSM data. Truly appreciate ground truth and imagery mapping. But before that, I think we should negotiate first cuz Malaysia got tons of traffic lights. (Especially at Klang Valley, life without traffic light tho) And if the majorities think that adding this feature is no problem then I will let it goes too...

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#5 2020-05-25 14:53:13

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 105

Re: Traffic signal ref

AkuAnakTimur wrote:

Well, OpenStreetMap goes beyond data related to street anyways. I see those, I map those (e.g. mapped reference codes in Kedah).

Not all junctions have names, so somehow assume it's going to be utilised in an unexpected way in the future, if it's not now.

If everything is not displayed in Mapnik (e.g. highway milestones - example in Kedah)... that sounds like begging me to stop mapping things that deemed so undesireable.

Also, if an app is going to display (or announce) those annoying junction names, well, the best thing to do is let the developers know that their navigation app should be changed to reflect what the end users tend to like. It means us OpenStreetMap contributors shouldn't bend the data too hard to follow an app exclusively.

Oic I understand your target now. Though it is not apply for now but for future right? For milestone I dont have opinion since it is useful for navigation. But traffic lights still need to discuss. There are tons of traffic lights. And if Malaysia also need to practice this, how about we write it in OSM wiki and standartize when we need to add the junction name. So if you (all) agree to input this feature, please say it below.

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#6 2020-05-25 14:56:33

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 105

Re: Traffic signal ref

and maybe we can shortern the name.Persimpangan can be something in abbr. e.g. Pspg or not putting it into name like Jln Kekwa/Mawar. Traffic lights direction also should be added if most of us decided to apply this feature for Malaysia.

Last edited by angys (2020-05-25 14:57:32)

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#7 2020-05-25 15:05:14

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 251
Website

Re: Traffic signal ref

angys wrote:

Oic I understand your target now. [...]

I'm going to say it again: I see those, I map those. I'm only aware that OsmAnd displays the reference code. I'm really sure those codes are not displayed in Maps.ME (or Wikimedia Maps, Mapbox, etc.). For navigation purposes, I don't know if those are included in the first two apps I've mentioned.

Well, you may brought these to the mailing lists, or the OpenStreetMap help forum to discuss in depth, getting inputs from an international audience.

angys wrote:

and maybe we can shortern the name.Persimpangan can be something in abbr. [...]

You're aware that abbreviated name goes into the short_name tag right? That already went straight into the territory of bending OpenStreetMap data to force Mapnik (on OpenStreetMap.org) to show how things should look like. Mapbox maps, for example, they rather show abbreviated names if available (because it's programmed to).

Some junction names could be so long, it might seem pointless. Let the developers of OpenStreetMap-Carto know if there are possibilities to tone it down for Mapnik maps displayed on OpenStreetMap.org.

P.S. in deep South Thailand, junction names are short thanks to the Thai language itself. However... how about we see some example around Muar?

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#8 2020-05-25 15:16:29

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 105

Re: Traffic signal ref

AkuAnakTimur wrote:
angys wrote:

Oic I understand your target now. Though it is not apply for now but for future right? For milestone I dont have opinion since it is useful for navigation. But traffic lights still need to discuss. There are tons of traffic lights. And if Malaysia also need to practice this, how about we write it in OSM wiki and standartize when we need to add the junction name. So if you (all) agree to input this feature, please say it below.

I'm going to say it again: I see those, I map those. I'm only aware that OsmAnd displays the reference code. I'm really sure those codes are not displayed in Maps.ME (or Wikimedia Maps, Mapbox, etc.). For navigation purposes, I don't know if those are included in the first two apps I've mentioned.

Well, you may brought these to the mailing lists, or the OpenStreetMap help forum to discuss in depth, getting inputs from an international audience.

Thanks for answering my questions. Now I agree to added it but I hope it would be useful for app development in the future.

Last edited by angys (2020-05-25 17:45:03)

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#9 2020-05-25 18:32:37

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 105

Re: Traffic signal ref

http://www.data.gov.my/data/ms_MY/datas … lau-pinang Just found this, I wonder is there a complete list for other districts in Malaysia also? Luckily Penang Island didnt put those name of Persimpangan2 everywhere.

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#10 2020-05-25 18:44:06

Mateusz Konieczny
Member
Registered: 2013-09-22
Posts: 1,553

Re: Traffic signal ref

"This reference code even not display in Mapnik OSM." - note that one of requirements to show something Default Map style is that there is large number of objects already mapped.

(not everything mapped on large scale will be shown, but rarely mapped features are extremely unlikely to be added to most of renderers)

Last edited by Mateusz Konieczny (2020-05-25 18:44:17)

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#11 2020-05-28 03:16:21

muralito
Member
Registered: 2012-09-04
Posts: 1,847

Re: Traffic signal ref

angys wrote:

Just noticed that some areas put name for traffic signals.

(Maybe there are other rules in OSM Malasya but) The value of the name seems to be concatenation of the names of the streets, so it seems it isn't the name of the signal but their location or the intersection it controls. It seems to me that the name tag should'nt be used like that.

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#12 2020-05-28 04:27:14

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 251
Website

Re: Traffic signal ref

muralito wrote:

The value of the name seems to be concatenation of the names of the streets, so it seems it isn't the name of the signal but their location or the intersection it controls. It seems to me that the name tag should'nt be used like that.

The names of these junction may be simply just like that. However, there are cases where it's not; in short: around my local city of Alor Setar, Kedah and some at grade junctions I've ever travelled through across Malaysia.

Few examples in my local city, that were put up by the local council (see this news report - translated by Google Translate)

The rest might be decided by the Department of Works - really depends on what kind of road (i.e. federal ones are maintained by the department on the federal level; and the maintenance of state roads are usually done by the state level of the department). So in these specific cases, they are indeed either "concatenation of the names of the streets" or "their location or the intersection it controls".

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