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#1 2020-02-29 18:41:55

Eskadrilius
Member
Registered: 2020-02-29
Posts: 7

Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

Hello please advice me who can make any changes on map?
Thanks

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#2 2020-02-29 18:54:28

Jan Olieslagers
Member
From: B-3150
Registered: 2019-09-15
Posts: 247

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

Hello , welcome to the forum!
Your question is not very clear to me - what changes would you like to see to which map?

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#3 2020-03-01 10:51:42

Eskadrilius
Member
Registered: 2020-02-29
Posts: 7

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

Hello friend. It seems our country border is not as in real life. If you can correct it it will be better. You can check it using Google maps. The are different. Part of our area edited as area of our neighbour area. It is just several days so. About one week ago I saw it was normal as in Google maps. I think it made by someone political.Please check in Google and OnestreetMap Azerbaijan border(west of Aze,dark blue drawing)

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#4 2020-03-01 13:08:21

Eskadrilius
Member
Registered: 2020-02-29
Posts: 7

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

Jan Olieslagers wrote:

Hello , welcome to the forum!
Your question is not very clear to me - what changes would you like to see to which map?

I understood. Thanks

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#5 2020-03-01 13:24:48

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,528

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

Hello - Andy from OSM's Data Working Group here.

Yes - someone has edited the border so that the de-facto Artsakh Republic is no longer part of de-jure Azerbaijan.  Currently the relations look like:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/364110

and

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/ … 735/47.230

Going back a couple of months we see:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/RbU

and

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/RbV

There is a disputed boundary here, and while one side or other could argue that the previous situation in OSM wasn't to their liking, the current situation (with both boundaries broken) is in no-one's interest.  It might be best to avoid piecemeal edits for now and let someone more familiar with admin boundary repairs fix it.  I'll raise the issue over at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtop … 65676&p=14 to see if anyone there has time (you can see regular "repair" edits by people from there at http://osm.mapki.com/history/relation.php?id=364110 ), and we (the DWG) will look in more detail at which changesets caused the problem in the first place.

Best Regards,

Andy

PS if you'd like to email the OpenStreetMap's Data Working Group directly you can do so via data@osmfoundation.org

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#6 2020-03-01 13:40:33

Eskadrilius
Member
Registered: 2020-02-29
Posts: 7

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

SomeoneElse wrote:

Hello - Andy from OSM's Data Working Group here.

Yes - someone has edited the border so that the de-facto Artsakh Republic is no longer part of de-jure Azerbaijan.  Currently the relations look like:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/364110

and

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/ … 735/47.230

Going back a couple of months we see:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/RbU

and

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/RbV

There is a disputed boundary here, and while one side or other could argue that the previous situation in OSM wasn't to their liking, the current situation (with both boundaries broken) is in no-one's interest.  It might be best to avoid piecemeal edits for now and let someone more familiar with admin boundary repairs fix it.  I'll raise the issue over at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtop … 65676&p=14 to see if anyone there has time (you can see regular "repair" edits by people from there at http://osm.mapki.com/history/relation.php?id=364110 ), and we (the DWG) will look in more detail at which changesets caused the problem in the first place.

Best Regards,

Andy

PS if you'd like to email the OpenStreetMap's Data Working Group directly you can do so via data@osmfoundation.org

Firstly thanks a lot. I understood but there is no any de-factos. Let me know where is it. If it so why so big corporation as Google didnt do any changes. I think it would be better if you dont allow to change anyone. We have enough persons who interested in it and support you to develop your maps but please consider our principles too. Because your map is used by different simulation and smthg organizations and we also use them. I think if you dont back-up it will lead to lose of your rating. We also adviced and reported all organizations about it.  This is VANDALIZM !

Best regards

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#7 2020-03-01 14:09:42

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,528

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

Addressing these one at a time:

I understood but there is no any de-factos.

How OpenStreetMap records boundaries is described in https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images … mation.pdf .  It gets complicated when (as here) one side of a dispute has control of an area, but it isn't really a recognised state. 

Secondly, what you see in any map (of which the 4 that you see at openstreetmap.org are just some of many) is just one representation of that data.  People are free to use OSM data and display it in such as way as to abide by any laws that require that their country is shown in a particular way.

If it so why so big corporation as Google didnt do any changes.

In case you weren't aware, Google doesn't show you the same map in all places around the world.  If you're in Russia, it'll show Crimea as part of Russia.  In Ukraine, it'll show Crimea as part of Ukraine.  The maps that you see at openstreetmap.org show the same map to everyone everywhere in the world.  That isn't the case with all OSM-based maps though - for example, OsmAnd on mobile phones uses the language of your phone to show placenames.

I think it would be better if you dont allow to change anyone.

The fundamental problem with that approach is that OSM depends on people being able to make changes.  We rely on people detecting political edits like this so that we can undo them quickly.

We have enough persons who interested in it and support you to develop your maps but please consider our principles too. Because your map is used by different simulation and smthg organizations and we also use them. I think if you dont back-up it will lead to lose of your rating.

OpenStreetMap isn't a commercial organisation, and as such simply doesn't care about ratings.  However it does care about the map being as accurate as it can be, which clearly it isn't at the moment.

We also adviced and reported all organizations about it.  This is VANDALIZM !

I've already explained the problem to the user concerned (see https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3528) and we'll take further steps if we need to.  Restoring the boundaries will take a bit longer, as it might be quite complicated.

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#8 2020-03-01 14:51:57

Eskadrilius
Member
Registered: 2020-02-29
Posts: 7

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

SomeoneElse wrote:

Addressing these one at a time:

I understood but there is no any de-factos.

How OpenStreetMap records boundaries is described in https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images … mation.pdf .  It gets complicated when (as here) one side of a dispute has control of an area, but it isn't really a recognised state. 

Secondly, what you see in any map (of which the 4 that you see at openstreetmap.org are just some of many) is just one representation of that data.  People are free to use OSM data and display it in such as way as to abide by any laws that require that their country is shown in a particular way.

If it so why so big corporation as Google didnt do any changes.

In case you weren't aware, Google doesn't show you the same map in all places around the world.  If you're in Russia, it'll show Crimea as part of Russia.  In Ukraine, it'll show Crimea as part of Ukraine.  The maps that you see at openstreetmap.org show the same map to everyone everywhere in the world.  That isn't the case with all OSM-based maps though - for example, OsmAnd on mobile phones uses the language of your phone to show placenames.

I think it would be better if you dont allow to change anyone.

The fundamental problem with that approach is that OSM depends on people being able to make changes.  We rely on people detecting political edits like this so that we can undo them quickly.

We have enough persons who interested in it and support you to develop your maps but please consider our principles too. Because your map is used by different simulation and smthg organizations and we also use them. I think if you dont back-up it will lead to lose of your rating.

OpenStreetMap isn't a commercial organisation, and as such simply doesn't care about ratings.  However it does care about the map being as accurate as it can be, which clearly it isn't at the moment.

We also adviced and reported all organizations about it.  This is VANDALIZM !

I've already explained the problem to the user concerned (see https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3528) and we'll take further steps if we need to.  Restoring the boundaries will take a bit longer, as it might be quite complicated.

Okay thanks for understanding. I hope everything will be good.

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#9 2020-03-01 16:33:47

Eskadrilius
Member
Registered: 2020-02-29
Posts: 7

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

SomeoneElse wrote:

Addressing these one at a time:

I understood but there is no any de-factos.

How OpenStreetMap records boundaries is described in https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images … mation.pdf .  It gets complicated when (as here) one side of a dispute has control of an area, but it isn't really a recognised state. 

Secondly, what you see in any map (of which the 4 that you see at openstreetmap.org are just some of many) is just one representation of that data.  People are free to use OSM data and display it in such as way as to abide by any laws that require that their country is shown in a particular way.

If it so why so big corporation as Google didnt do any changes.

In case you weren't aware, Google doesn't show you the same map in all places around the world.  If you're in Russia, it'll show Crimea as part of Russia.  In Ukraine, it'll show Crimea as part of Ukraine.  The maps that you see at openstreetmap.org show the same map to everyone everywhere in the world.  That isn't the case with all OSM-based maps though - for example, OsmAnd on mobile phones uses the language of your phone to show placenames.

I think it would be better if you dont allow to change anyone.

The fundamental problem with that approach is that OSM depends on people being able to make changes.  We rely on people detecting political edits like this so that we can undo them quickly.

We have enough persons who interested in it and support you to develop your maps but please consider our principles too. Because your map is used by different simulation and smthg organizations and we also use them. I think if you dont back-up it will lead to lose of your rating.

OpenStreetMap isn't a commercial organisation, and as such simply doesn't care about ratings.  However it does care about the map being as accurate as it can be, which clearly it isn't at the moment.

We also adviced and reported all organizations about it.  This is VANDALIZM !

I've already explained the problem to the user concerned (see https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3528) and we'll take further steps if we need to.  Restoring the boundaries will take a bit longer, as it might be quite complicated.

And additionally please. If there is de-facto why airspace over this area belongs to us? I can send you official link with full over border and airspace. Please back-up all editions.
Best regards

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#10 2020-03-02 14:06:52

Eskadrilius
Member
Registered: 2020-02-29
Posts: 7

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

SomeoneElse wrote:

Addressing these one at a time:

I understood but there is no any de-factos.

How OpenStreetMap records boundaries is described in https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images … mation.pdf .  It gets complicated when (as here) one side of a dispute has control of an area, but it isn't really a recognised state. 

Secondly, what you see in any map (of which the 4 that you see at openstreetmap.org are just some of many) is just one representation of that data.  People are free to use OSM data and display it in such as way as to abide by any laws that require that their country is shown in a particular way.

If it so why so big corporation as Google didnt do any changes.

In case you weren't aware, Google doesn't show you the same map in all places around the world.  If you're in Russia, it'll show Crimea as part of Russia.  In Ukraine, it'll show Crimea as part of Ukraine.  The maps that you see at openstreetmap.org show the same map to everyone everywhere in the world.  That isn't the case with all OSM-based maps though - for example, OsmAnd on mobile phones uses the language of your phone to show placenames.

I think it would be better if you dont allow to change anyone.

The fundamental problem with that approach is that OSM depends on people being able to make changes.  We rely on people detecting political edits like this so that we can undo them quickly.

We have enough persons who interested in it and support you to develop your maps but please consider our principles too. Because your map is used by different simulation and smthg organizations and we also use them. I think if you dont back-up it will lead to lose of your rating.

OpenStreetMap isn't a commercial organisation, and as such simply doesn't care about ratings.  However it does care about the map being as accurate as it can be, which clearly it isn't at the moment.

We also adviced and reported all organizations about it.  This is VANDALIZM !

I've already explained the problem to the user concerned (see https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3528) and we'll take further steps if we need to.  Restoring the boundaries will take a bit longer, as it might be quite complicated.

Hi

SomeoneElse_Revert is it your second account? I see you riverted and again moved borders like the same last one.

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#11 2020-03-02 15:32:28

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,528

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

Eskadrilius wrote:

SomeoneElse_Revert is it your second account? I see you reverted and again moved borders like the last one.

Yes, the revert should now be complete.

Azerbaijan is now http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/RdA, and the Artsakh Republic is http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/RdB.  Note that the latter is "admin_level=3" rather than  "admin_level=2" because it's not currently a recognised country in OSM.

If anyone has any further questions please email OSM's Data Working Group at data@osmfoundation.org .  If you're unfamiliar with boundary editing please don't try and patch things up yourself - it'll be quicker and easier to let someone more familiar with editing boundaries do it.

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#12 2020-03-02 21:28:25

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,528

Re: Help: How can I tolk to Map Developer to change country coasts?

One other thing that's worth mentioning - please don't be confused by what tiles you see at OpenStreetMap.org, or in other maps and apps.  These will be out of date (possibly for some considerable time, it depends on the map).

The current status of the Azerbaijan relation can be seen at https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/364110 .  Right now, that is how I left it this afternoon.

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