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#1 2020-02-10 09:22:03

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 435
Website

Strange boxes all over the map

Hi, does anybody know what's going on here and explain it to us, please:

Image6.png

Img links are broken, it seems. Here is the URL: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kcq44zg6lign7 … 6.png?dl=0

Looks a little bit like village boundaries, except they left gaps, so some buildings are in nowhere land.

The same people seem to have mapped buildings all over the place, as usual, without correcting image offsets.

Last edited by Beddhist (2020-02-10 09:35:53)

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#2 2020-02-10 09:41:05

wowik
Member
From: Zelenograd
Registered: 2009-09-29
Posts: 8,862

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

See description to the changeset
"Test..."

Last edited by wowik (2020-02-10 09:41:25)

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#3 2020-02-10 09:48:02

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 435
Website

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

That's only the latest edit.

In the same area I have now found villages, where all the houses were mapped as rectangles, but not aligned with the walls, rather roughly N-S.

Looks a bit like what Farcebook did. Vandalism.

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#4 2020-02-10 19:27:13

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 992

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

There was a discussion in the German sub-forum at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=68575
They pointed at an update of the Carto style: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstr … ag/v4.25.0
So just wait and try again, or try a different layer, e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html … ers=B000TT
http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=9& … FFFFFFFFFF

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#5 2020-02-11 00:41:28

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 435
Website

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

This is not about the slippy map, I'm talking about the data I see in JOSM. Does my image link not work for you?

Last edited by Beddhist (2020-02-11 00:42:06)

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#6 2020-02-11 03:44:00

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 284

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

I have had some correspondence with Elija... In essence, they were doing a project mapping malaria outbreaks, but using landuse=residential as a tag.
As the areas we poorly traced and way oversize for the villages in question, I complained this was not good for OSM.
They were helpful and offered to retag using the area tag instead, but apologised if they missed a few when reverting edits.  While what you see may not be directly related to this, I suspect it is. Perhaps message Elijah directly as he seems quite responsive.

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#7 2020-02-12 07:55:19

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 435
Website

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

Thanks for your input, Russ. I will contact him/her.

What is our position as a community about mass-tagging buildings with copied and pasted rectangles? I propose to ask them to either map them properly or, failing that, to re-tag all of them as something renderers don't use, like they did with the villages.

It worries me where this is heading: any organisation can put in any points and areas they like and I can foresee the time when the maps will be so full of spurious stuff that editing it will become a nightmare.

Perhaps we need filters in JOSM?

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#8 2020-02-24 11:55:24

stephankn
Moderator
Registered: 2010-05-04
Posts: 540

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

It doesn't look like these areas are anything official. Probably something internal which should not be in the OSM database?

This is the task:
https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/6034

There is no contact person listed at all, but it states:
"Please only map this task as part of the Thailand NMCP training".

This task and dozen others are created by HOT (a business making money in the humanitarian sector).
They claim it coming from "Clinton Health Access Initiative (CHAI)"

The tasks seem to be about mapping buildings. So all the non-rectangular crap not much better than anything AI could produce comes from untrained humans in the belief doing something good.

Please comment on changesets, share the changeset numbers here for reference. If no response on bad mapping comments, feel free to simply delete badly mapped buildings. It the numbers of bad edits are too high (some tasks are nearly completed according to HOT), contact data working group and link to this thread. They might have some internal contacts to HOT and know how to contact the originator of the directed mapping project.

I don't know how that NMCP is involved here. It stands for "The National Malaria Control Programme (NMCP)". Maybe HOT got money to run trainings.

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#9 2020-02-25 04:17:15

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 284

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

Beddhist wrote:

What is our position as a community about mass-tagging buildings with copied and pasted rectangles? I propose to ask them to either map them properly or, failing that, to re-tag all of them as something renderers don't use, like they did with the villages.
It worries me where this is heading: any organisation can put in any points and areas they like and I can foresee the time when the maps will be so full of spurious stuff that editing it will become a nightmare.

Perhaps this subject needs a new thread, as without doing a load of digging, I dont know where the OSM community sits on this.  However, my understanding is that we map real and identifiable items that exist on the ground.  We dont add areas that appertain to individual projects.  The HOT project encourages the tracing of buildings ... what I spoke about recently involves areas being mapped out that seem to relate to a WHO related project.  They criticized me for changing a badly traced rural residential area, into two areas that more closely followed the few houses contained within it.
Subsequent correspondence led to them agreeing to change landuse=residential tags, into area=yes.

As its pertinent, I will show my correspondence with them, starting with a message recieved after I made the change noted above :

My name is Elijah Filip and I’m an epidemiologist for the Clinton Health Access Initiative. We are currently working with the Bureau of Vector-borne Diseases (BVBD) in Thailand to map out the areas in which local cases of malaria were found in the previous three years in OSM so that we can then upload the boundaries into an application that will be used for investigating these areas. Given that OSM is open to edit by anyone, we are building out the process for mapping directly in the application, but in the meantime OSM has worked as a stopgap.

While processing an upload for the most recently mapped foci, I noticed that you had split a foci into two different ways:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/766408602
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/758041120
The Thailand team is working on recreating the boundary as it was, but if possible, could you refrain from editing boundaries with the source tag “WHO2019” or “BVBDMAY2019”?

Thanks for your assistance and continued mapping in Thailand! Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks, Eli

My reply :

Hi Elijah,
I understand your concern, and in the short term I will comply with your wishes. I would point out that the issue here is that in trying to ensure Thailand is mapped correctly and precisely, it does go against the grain to see your roughly bounded areas tagged with the landuse=residential tag. We would normally use this tag to signify areas of residential use, and as such, try to limit the boundaries to where buildings exist. I think you will agree that your boundaries are wildly excessive, and give the impression of large settlements when in fact only a few houses exist. I think the misuse of the landuse tag gives the greatest concern, and if you can achieve the same aims without it, I suggest that's the way to go.
I trust that once you have built the process out, you will let me know so I may correct any areas I then come across, unless of course, you will do a mass revert given the data seems limited to your organisation. Anyway, I reconfirm I will not edit your work, now I understand the reasons behind it. Rgds, Russ,

To which they closed with :

Hi Russ,
Thank you for your quick response. I agree that the use of the landuse tag is inappropriate - it was a hold over from a previous process developed by a different organization and I appreciate you pointing out the issue. We do not need to use that tag for the current process so I’ve gone ahead and mass edited all the relevant foci to the area tag instead. I’ve spoken with the Thai government staff to ensure area tags are used going forward so as not to dilute the usefulness of the landuse tag.
Note that the previous process involved mapping more foci than were required and there may still be some landuse:residential foci in OSM. We will do our best to delete these foci as we find them, but feel free to do the same and/or edit the boundaries going forward.
Thanks, Eli

However, this does not answer Beddhists question ... should we actively delete other peoples work because it doesn't fit the scope of OSM ?  Cud be a lot of unhappy bunnies about if we do smile

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#10 2020-02-25 17:33:00

stephankn
Moderator
Registered: 2010-05-04
Posts: 540

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

Unless there is a way that the data entered can be verified with a reasonable effort by third parties I am in favor of removing it.

OSM is a community project. We can not improve a map if there is no way to verify that the data is correct. So adding closed source/fictional/arbitrary data into the map is not verifiable.

There exists data difficult to verify due to a lack of on the ground feature, like boundaries.
But boundaries can be looked up from various open sources, reimported and verified.

Where is the definition of the data used here? Is it really open? Or is a copyright infringement going on by this import?
Where was this import discussed? I found no reference in the forum or the wiki.

@Russ: As you seem to have a contact: Can you ask for the source of this area data and the license of it?

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#11 2020-02-26 03:58:44

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 284

Re: Strange boxes all over the map

stephankn wrote:

@Russ: As you seem to have a contact: Can you ask for the source of this area data and the license of it?

I would appreciate if the correct questions could be asked by someone such as yourself with a bit more knowledge of the issues.  Elijah's profile is : https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Elijah%20Filip

... but he leaves absolutely nothing about his work on his profile, which does not bode well with other users, Im sure.

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