[RfC] Mapping grade-separated junctions.

kaart only added destinations…these absurd names only appearing after your edits, together with junction:ref…its in way’s history…

In respect of section A, I should make it clear that I do not support extending the classification of the motorway beyond the point where the road of a lower classification crosses, merges or diverges. I already told Kaart that the motorways should not cross a road of a lower classification, because they may not always be restricted to pedestrians (when no crossing routes are mapped).

To put it more specifically, my opinion is that for grade separated junctions, use the highest classification for links where there is no “escape”, up to the point where a road of a lower classification crosses, joins, or leaves. I will amend that in the OP.

For clarity, Roundabouts are not mapped as links.

i fixed most of the A1 motorway links near Athens, i also fixed most of the side roads (especially the junction with EO8)

about destinations: we can keep it simple, local knowledge, signs and common sense (i know many signs are obsolete or just stupid

i think major destinations are in order, no streets etc

About side roads, sideways etc:
Most of them are anonymous.
Ιn favor of easier navigation, how should we name the most of their parts.
We cannot call them all just “sideways” or “side road”
For example A1 has at both sides these kind of road, but the Greek state never tried to name them.
**ika-chan! **what do you suggest about it?
It is wrong the navigator device to say just “turn right” on side road or even worst, if any would like to search for a road like this, how could define which road is represented by a plain name “side way”???

There is not such ΦΕΚ for the most of this road category, it is not set by law, but we must take an initiative to make navigation easier.

I think a separate RfC for road destinations and service roads would be needed, but only to avoid cluttering this thread.

Your patience is appreciated.

**Extra: You can check the progress of the junction:ref= ticket for JOSM here. I originally added the “Είσοδος”, “Έξοδος” and “Κόμβος” name tags because JOSM did not recognise the junction:ref= tags, but if you are happy, I will remove them when you are.

Again, we can do this without trading accusations and insults.

@ika-chan!
my only objection about junctions’ numbering is the slash symbol.
It can be easily confused of total numbering in a road.
For example, 1/12 mostly reminds me that it is the 1st of 12 junctions and less that 1 is exit and 12 entrance.
I dont know if it is the universal way to number junctions, but I’d suggest other symbols, like 1[12], or 1(12) or even 1>12* and so on.

*symbol “>” works like an arrow

There is a Unicode symbol for an arrow: →

Which format is suggested at last?

Good question: I’ll ask the Wiki.

come on people, what about 1;12 like all others? it does render with road refs

Hi, I am not rushing through, as I want to allow others to suggest ideas for how we format or order junction:ref=*, when two motorways meet with different numbers.

I am flexible in the format for such interchanges: whatever format is the most suitable will be integrated to the opening post.

just to make some things clear;according to the wiki exit_to is obsolete, we should use destinations on ways instead, motorway junctions names and refs should go on the last node someone can get out of the motorway

i think the best name for motorway junctions should be in the form of Κόμβος Χαλκίδας etc according to the motorway web page

i also believe is wrong for the main motorway ref to appear in motorway links…i still find them

i dont understand this obsession with junction:ref it also looks wrong to use it on the way instead of the motorway junction node

exit_to=* can definitely go, as it has been replaced by destination=*.

I am neutral on the naming of interchanges, but leaning towards leaving “Κόμβος” out as with most of Mainland Europe.

I have removed quite a lot of names=* and ref=* on motorway_links recently.

There is a case for using junction:ref=* is an active tag to identify members of a numbered junction. Outside of Greece, major users include the Netherlands and the United States. There is no obsession with using the tag out of thin air. It does not replace using junction numbers (ref=*) on the motorway junction node.

It is important to remember that just because a tag is widely used does not mean that one must use them in practice.

The names of the Interchanges are officially named by each road operator.
Here in Greece, except Attiki odos, we don’t use numbers but names on exits.
Beside, except Attiki odos, all other highways do not have officially numbered junctions.
All numbering is based on Wikipedia, since the Greek State doesn’t care about it but only for toll tickets!

That was by former editor George_ath (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/35494026/history). I didn’t want to touch the numbers, in case I accidentally screwed up on something, and because there are junction numbers outside the A6/A62/A64/A642/A65, even if not for all junctions in the country.

Examples:
A7 - https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/g8X_W4kO-lQqbWDdK4FWaQ
A71 - https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/dhaniVz97AMevhheTnjHDA
A8 - https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/COmVbvVlsZ6QXdYBekCzzw

You are right, I missed these numbering.
At least at A1 there is not official numbering.

I would like to ask, if the entrance of “rest_area” and “services” on highways should be junctions or not.

It turns out that officially, the exit node to the rest area should use highway=motorway_junction, and not highway=services, but the latter seemed appropriate if there was no public exit to another road.*

Source: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dservices

  • I say “public exit”, because many motorway services in Greece have “secret” entrances from other roads: they are not meant to be used by the public, but the enforcement of the use of secret entrances varies a lot.

These roads are service roads and not official exits.
By the way, on services area I found the services tag on the beginning of motorway junction.
Should I remove it or not?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=17/37.65303/22.46761

I agree that the service area exit nodes may be untagged, but I wish for the information on the nodes to be merged into the polygons that represent the boundary of the service area.