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#1 2018-12-17 21:08:27

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 733

@Tordanik(once again) ; about SETT and COBBLESTONE

Why did you change this , and added (again) that image of sett to cobblestone ???
No matter what this discussion outcome about that is, there is a MAJOR difference between cobblestones and setts ... and talking about 'colloquial' ; a lot of all the 'kasseien' (=setts) -roads in Holland/Belgium/France, are MIStagged as surface=cobblestone,  due to that(second) WRONG image of a sett on the surface-tag cobblestone here ... roll

examples to show difference between ;
COBBLESTONE ROAD ->
Guzow-oryszew_road_cm04.jpg


SETT ROAD ->
Peter_Sagan_201807151608.jpg

Last edited by henke54 (2018-12-17 21:15:33)

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#2 2018-12-18 08:29:48

escada
Moderator
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 1,743

Re: @Tordanik(once again) ; about SETT and COBBLESTONE

This type of discussion should go directly on the changeset.

BTW, I do not share your vision on the mistagging

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#3 2018-12-18 12:01:25

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 733

Re: @Tordanik(once again) ; about SETT and COBBLESTONE

escada wrote:

This type of discussion should go directly on the changeset.

BTW, I do not share your vision on the mistagging

whatever ... here is exactly the difference showed ->
cobbles_defn.jpg
cobble-sett.jpg

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#4 2018-12-18 14:59:05

SK53
Member
Registered: 2009-01-11
Posts: 529

Re: @Tordanik(once again) ; about SETT and COBBLESTONE

This is an old one which will run & run (I first had a conversation about it with LuluAnn at SotM10). FWIW I agree with @henke54, but the majority historical OSM usage has been cobblestone for setts.


Apart from being more correct smile, there is a very useful use case. Setts are a perfectly reasonable surface for older people or other people with balance problems, but cobblestone is very much to be avoided. I would think the same applies to blind & partially sighted people.

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#5 2018-12-18 19:37:59

R0bst3r
Member
Registered: 2015-04-23
Posts: 593

Re: @Tordanik(once again) ; about SETT and COBBLESTONE

OT:

SK53 wrote:

Setts are a perfectly reasonable surface for older people or other people with balance problems, but cobblestone is very much to be avoided. I would think the same applies to blind & partially sighted people.

I'm sure you didn't mean what you wrote.
Neither sett nor cobblestones are even halfway "a perfectly reasonable surface" for any of this people you mentioned.

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#6 2018-12-19 02:19:32

Tordanik
Moderator
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-06-17
Posts: 2,548
Website

Re: @Tordanik(once again) ; about SETT and COBBLESTONE

henke54 wrote:

Why did you change this , and added (again) that image of sett to cobblestone ???

I always describe the reasons for my changes in edit comments. In this case, the comment reads

Tordanik wrote:

Undo removal of sett image. According to a prior discussion, the 'cobblestone' value in OSM is ambiguous due to colloquial use. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.p … id=1558643

Following that link leads you to the edit which I restored, and from there to the forum discussion that resulted in this edit. (You are linking that discussion in your answer, so I'm assuming you are aware of all this. But I'm mentioning this for the benefit of other readers of this thread because it answers your "why" question: I reverted your change because it contradicts the outcome of that previous discussion.)

Specifically, the outcome of that discussion was that it's best to use surface=sett for sett roads, surface=unhewn_cobblestone for real cobblestone roads, and accept that surface=cobblestone is de facto being used for both.

The root of the issue is that, quoting from your Wikipedia link, 'Setts are often idiomatically referred to as "cobbles"'. So your observation that many people tag sett roads as surface=cobblestone is true, but that's not because of a single image on the wiki – it's because people confuse these words and everyday usage of "cobblestone" doesn't necessarily match the dictionary definition. And not just in English either, German has the same problem with the word "Kopfsteinpflaster", for example.

It's still worth teaching your fellow mappers about the difference. But because we realistically cannot be sure what people meant when they added surface=cobblestone, the pragmatic solution seems to be that people who care about this distinction use the more unambiguous sett/unhewn_cobblestone values.


OSM in 3D: OSM2World

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#7 2018-12-19 08:50:32

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 733

Re: @Tordanik(once again) ; about SETT and COBBLESTONE

Tordanik wrote:

... but that's not because of a single image on the wiki – it's because people confuse these words and everyday usage of "cobblestone" doesn't necessarily match the dictionary definition.

that 'reversal' of yours is not gonna help to 'solve' that 'confusion' ... on the contrary .... roll

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