GRAB - Here we bloody go again !

Can someone recommend what’s the best way to revert edits? I usually use JOSM, but it seems a bit complicated. Is there a better way?

Well Ajay, I’m guessing you are in India, and we are in Thailand. Will your Company pay you to travel over here ?

If not … well where do we start ? To summarize, we are seeing many examples of your team adding roads that simply are not there. How do we stop that ?

Dont forget, that your efforts follow that of Facebook where they saturated the map with bad info… many of us have tried the Mr Nice guy approach, and all we get back is profuse apologies, but no real reverting.
Some of now are just deleting massive amounts of data where we see continual bad mapping, and you must agree thats a waste of time for all of us.

I presume your team is paid, and I presume no mapper like to end his day with no ways added … so I for one am convinced Global Logic might have presented Grab with a good looking proposal to increase OSM coverage, and are now looking to add anything they can, just to justify this. Am I wrong ?

You have to stop this, and stop it today. We dont need thousands of private driveways added, or tracks across fields where Im sure no Grab taxi will be pleased to go. So please STOP TODAY.

Contact me privately if you like, or via this forum.

@Russ Ajay is based in SG and in all fairness he has offered to come down and talk and to work with the community.

The ideal way I see this working is for Grab to have a dialog with the community, we establish shared goals and Grab deploys resources to achieve those goals.

At the moment I’m not sure if there is any possibility of a shared goal. In fact I’m not sure what Grab is trying to achieve, and whether OpenStreetMap is the platform by which to achieve it.

Hi Russ.

Yes we’ve stopped working on Thailand. I’m happy to come over to Thailand and have an open dialogue with the community either on 15-16th of January. If the dates work, I can set something up for us in the office and we can chalk our a plan to collaborate better. Looking forward to seeing you in person.

Hi Ajay,

Thank you for your cooperation, we really appreciate it… Will you be able to make it to Chiang Mai? Most of the active community lives up there. I can fly up for the day if its on the 15th.

In the meanwhile it would be good to have more insight into what exactly you guys are doing. Scope of work, training manual, objectives, KPIs, any documentation that you have that explains why the mappers are working the way they are would be a great place to start.

Best regards
Mishari

At present, both dates work for me. … but in CM of course.

Me too.

@Ajay will you be available to meet us in Chiang Mai on the 15th of Jan? Please let us know asap as I need to book transport.

Best Regards
Mishari

False.

While reading your post, I’m witnessing Grab-employed armchair mappers try fixing the mess by replacing it with even more mess before my eyes (2); together with assortments of edits done in the Bangkok area. (1)

The discussion is started with false pretense.

DWG, consider blocking (at least 0-min blocking) all Grab-related accounts until the talk is proceeded, preliminary result posted, and consensus reached on the forum on whether to let this “map improvement effort” (/sarcasm) continue.


(1) @ajaybulls statement’s timestamp is 2018-12-01 13:10:31 +0700. Evidences of Grab-conducted edit after that timestamp are following:

2018-12-03 08:35:58 +0700: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65109800
2018-12-03 16:27:51 +0700: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65118257
2018-12-03 16:32:08 +0700: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65118358
2018-12-03 19:49:47 +0700: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65124082

This does not count edits done outside Bangkok (which I didn’t monitor), if there is any.

(2) I hereby formally request that DWG revert these two changesets, in whole. These are obvious cases of uneducated micro-alignment edits with no ground truth, which undone the works of surveying contributors.

My writeup on Grab’s uneducated edit/incompetence in Bangkok is now posted in GrabOSM Thailand complaints thread (starting from this post) with case-by-case breakdown.

Thanks @Nutchanon for clarifying the issues with the Globalogic edits. I think it would be helpful if @Ajay would clarify what they’re doing and why. Ideally someone from Globalogic should be here making clarifications too. It would be really good if there was somebody who’s KPI is aligned to map quality that’s actually rated by the community.

I’ve been trying to revert the edits in my area but can’t figure out how to do it without potentially causing more problems :frowning: Perhaps someone would be kind enough to write a tutorial?

Best Regards
Mishari

Hello All,
After Ajay mentioned that we stopped working on Thailand, we did not continue to make any new additions to the map, however our internal. Quality team found few mistakes which were corrected. This resulted in viewing new submissions in Bangkok.

Just wanted to clarify .

Thanks
Lavanya

@everyone

I can confirm we’ve asked our folks to stop mapping the very same day. Some edits may have gone in post due to communication lag but we’ve stopped working on Thailand overall as a country till we meet and decide our next course of action. As I mentioned, we’re only looking to do this together with the community and are happy to stall efforts till we come up with a plan of action. I’ll confirm dates and time in the first week of January once our schedule is a bit more set. My local country lead as well as the singapore team will be present to address any concerns.

Please refer to lavanyas comments below from global logic about the changes too. Happy holidays all, looking forward to seeing you’ll in person soon.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/1/13/Organised_editing_guidelines_version_20180908.pdf

In case anyone is interested, the organized edit guideline provides a good overview of how it should be done. Of course implementation should be meaningful as well and not just a bueacratic exercise.

@mishari and Team

I’ll be in BKK on 15th and 16th so a meeting in our office there would be best as I’m coming for some important meetings. If not, I’ll have to make another trip to Chiang Mai on different dates. Please let me know if BKK can happen, we can have a couple of hours workshop and I’ll involve pimlada and team too.

I’m afraid I wont be able to attend in BKK.

@russ- No worries, I’ll fly down to Chaing Mai. How about we schedule something for the 17th (Jan) in the day? I’m flexible to meet anywhere you guys suggest.

If its the 17th, it would have to be in the afternoon for me.

Just spotted that this didn’t get a response earlier.

If you’re untangling a series of complicated edits where you need to reconcile the revert of a series of problematical edits with changes made after them, JOSM can be the best option, but as you’ve probably found it can get very complicated very fast when you have to keep in mind two different “mental pictures” of the data - OSM as it is now and OSM as it was before, and compare what JOSM says it is trying to do with both of those.

Another option are the revert scripts that the wiki talks about at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Revert_scripts . Those work well when you want to e.g. revert everything not touched by another mapper after the “problem” edit. It’s how I did the “unnamed tourist information” revert in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65626832 .

You do have the option of doing some processing on the data that you feed into the revert scripts (in the case of the big revert above I considered leaving POIs with names untouched, until I translated some of the names and got things like “experiment” as the name. That sort of processing can be done on the data before you feed it in to the revert scripts, and you can also do things programmatically with the output where it says “I couldn’t revert X because of Y” - it might be that for some values of Y you want to revert anyway.

@russ and @mishari

Confirmed for 17th 12-2pm. Will book my tickets accordingly as the last flight out for me to SG is at 5pm.

Looking forward to it!