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#26 2015-09-09 20:01:42

Zeptomoon
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From: Heraklion - Crete - Greece
Registered: 2010-04-20
Posts: 4
Website

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

Although this thread has been quiet for three years, it seems that the issue is not quite agreed upon. And some users might still read this. So I want to give a balance to the discussion here. Some comments on the reasons why we should (supposedly) not use any prefix, such as Οδός or Λεωφόρος or Πλατεία or ..?
This is no offence against Nikos, who made some interesting points, I just choose his post, because he has nicely listed some common reasons that are brought up.

(Sorry for the automatic translation used below!!)

NikosSkouteris wrote:

The reasons should not write the prefix "Street" are many.

The main reason is that all pathways are pathways. There is no way to find a street that is something else (not talking about the avenues in which if you use the prefix "Avenue" but we will have a problem again with the next word). It is therefore meaningless and redundant.

As you said yourself (in the parentheses) it is not meaningless or redundant, since some streets are not odos, but leoforos or platia. And maybe there are other prefixes too?

NikosSkouteris wrote:

Second: The prefix "Street" hides information to the end user (and in the header, and the data field) in GPS devices and elsewhere. I recall that the Greek prefix in front and enters entirely in contrast with other languages coming in at the end and abbreviated (St.). We will have something like "Direction in Street A ..." or "Next shift in Street A ..." which is ugly and functional as well as aesthetic (more correctly: "Next turn to Anaxagoras"). It's a little more dangerous for the driver to be at a glance to see something right on the screen instead of a hidden road. We are talking about devices of all ages and features.

The purpose of the data behind OpenStreetMap is not only to render maps or make navigation devices. Those are important use cases, but not the only ones.
If a renderer or navigator is not able to cut out "odos" (if this is wanted) then it's easy to do this in software. (I'm not a developer, but I do code casually and this is a one-liner.)

NikosSkouteris wrote:

Thirdly: Across Greece users preferred to import the street names without the prefix "Street". In some regions of Thessaloniki only (as far as I have seen) have this prefix is incongruous. Thus losing the uniformity of the map. Easier would erase the "Street" by some roads instead add to all the others.

As far as I see, the uniformity is not lost in Thessaloniki, since the name= tag contains the same data. (The main part of the street name without "odos".)
This is not about what is more easy to erase or to do now, but what is more useful in the future.

NikosSkouteris wrote:

Fourth: All the "official" manufacturers do not use the prefix only to their web interfaces because the screen of a PC has space.

a) Which "official" manufacturers are you referring to? Google? (Probably they do not have the map data available, either.)
b) This is not only about how to make the map look nice. (Don't do "tagging for the renderer.") It's also about how to maintain a comprehensive database for many diverse applications.

NikosSkouteris wrote:

Fifth: the prefix "grows" the map difficult do the job of search engines.

I absolutely doubt that search engines (who can understand much more difficult semantics) have a problem with the prefix, which is additional information.

NikosSkouteris wrote:

Sixthly: the people who make maps are not programmers (I'm one of the few exceptions) and can not make scripts or programs for any juggling a typical useless and redundant. Besides the "Ιερά οδός" would result as "Οδός Ιερά οδός." Besides if you start adding and other difficulties in the map makers (already several differences with any of the various devices and not only) will slowly be withdrawn if they see their product be tsapatsodouleia.

People who install renderers and make routing applications are probably programmers, or at least they know how to do "sed s/name:odos/name:/" or something similar.
Besides, the "Ιερά οδός" would NOT result in "Οδός Ιερά οδός" since the official name of the street is "Ιερά οδός", as can be seen here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9926703 … 6?hl=en-US

If anyone wants to make a map without "odos", then (s)he needs to have a script that removes these before rendering, in any case. Because (at the moment) we can not expect all roads to lack the "odos" or "leoforos".

NikosSkouteris wrote:

In the OSM I have a dual job. First update the database and secondly I make one of my own map (http://skouteris.wordpress.com/gps/greecemap/). Besides I am and user GPS devices and hiker. Therefore, I have "seen" the map at all its stages. In as long as I deal with the whole issue of one thing there ever I wondered: if the road on which I move is street. But it could be something else?

Yes, "leoforos". Or "plateia" or maybe something else also?
I appreciate that you are both contributing to the map and making an OSM-based map available for users. But maybe other people have other preferences and would like to see the full name. Or maybe there's another use, where the full name is needed. Maybe someone wants not make a map, but to make statisticts of the average street-name-length in the different neighbourhoods. Keep up the great work you are doing inside the map and around it. Just let's leave space for other use cases also. It's easy to cut-out the "odos" automatically, it's impossible to add it if it's missing! (Since you can not be sure it is missing because it is in fact "odos" or maybe just because the mapper didn't know it.)

NikosSkouteris wrote:

Finally, we must see the issue from the perspective of the end user, because the raison d'être of OSM is this: have some utility. So any information we have to end users as they're thinking about and how would our work more easily and securely.

I agree, but (as I said) making a 2D street map (for a small screen) is not the only use case. It's the most common, but not the only:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Fil … _graph.png
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM2World
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Fil … ghway.jpeg
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Fil … _stops.png


With all the above said (in order to show that there's another side of the book) I want to leave this decision up the Greek community. And if you really think, that there's absolutely zero information in having Οδός or Λεωφόρος or Πλατεία in the name, then so be it. (Personally I think we're loosing something. Something small, but something...)

And if we can say that we argee more or less, then let's write our decision here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mul … mes#Greece

At the moment this section advises to transliterate "Οδός" to "Odos" but then:
- omit Οδός in the Greek name:el
- do NOT omit Λεωφόρος
- (does not mention Πλατεία or other)
- Transliterate in int_name and here it says omit "Odos" in english (eg. "Stadou" or "Leoforos Dimokratias")
- Translate in name:en (Democracy Avenue)


If we choose to keep "Λεωφόρος", then why not keep also "Οδός"? That would be much more consistent.
The above has the problem, that we can not know: If there is no "Οδός" in the name:el, then is it really "Οδός" or maybe someone just forgot to put the "Λεωφόρος" (or even deleted it - happens! https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/41466890/history ).

Sorry to wake up the dead, but this one is a zombie! tongue
Let's decide and rest in peace! wink

Since consensus seems to be difficult to achieve, I suggest we vote:

NONE = Omit both "Οδός" and "Λεωφόρος" from the name. (But keep "Πλατεία" or whatever. And don't bother about name:prefix)
ALL = Keep all prefixes, Οδός", "Λεωφόρος", "Πλατεία", whatever inside the name= tag.
SOME = Omit only "Οδός", but keep prefixes "Λεωφόρος", "Πλατεία", whatever inside the name= tag.
PREFIX = Put all prefixes in the name:prefix tag and remove "Οδός" and "Λεωφόρος" (but not "Πλατεία", etc) from the name= tag.

Other voting systems welcome, but let's collect some votes, get this off the table and make it a Greek standard.
(I believe it's best to keep the full name, but I don't vote.)
Can we collect maybe 10 or more votes here to have a good basis to make it "decided"?

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#27 2015-09-09 22:53:26

Amaroussi
Member
From: ATH-LON(!)
Registered: 2013-06-07
Posts: 120

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

In my opinion I would go for "SOME" because:

- Nearly all maps I have seen (including Bing and Google) ignore "Odos" as a prefix.
- Most maps I have seen (including Bing and Google) retain "Leoforos" et. al.
- "Ethniki Odos" and "Eparchiaki Odos" should be retained to distinguish between each other.

I do not know why one would write "Odos" as a prefix in addresses, unless its Iera Odos and the like.

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#28 2015-09-16 18:32:06

JayCBR
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Registered: 2015-03-11
Posts: 184

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

i think we should omit both odos and leoforos, i m ok with retaining plateia
name=Δημοκρατίας
name:el=Δημοκρατίας
int_name=Dimokratias
name:en=Democracy Avenue

name:prefix is only a proposed feature denoting direction
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Prop … Indication

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#29 2015-09-17 01:35:51

Amaroussi
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From: ATH-LON(!)
Registered: 2013-06-07
Posts: 120

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

name:prefix would just add complexity to what is already a complicated road system, but most maps retain Leoforos, hence we should honour that.

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#30 2015-09-28 04:19:45

mtraveller
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Registered: 2015-09-28
Posts: 9

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

For a couple of years I've been quietly reading the valid points made from all members of this discussion, but to be honest I didn't have anything interest to add. This issue did bother me though: I've found myself walking through the streets, taking notes of what is actually on the street signs. And it's kinda funny that an "avenue" which is right next to my office has a few different names, according at least to it's many different street signs: "Leoforos Dimokratias", "Odos Dimokratias" and, yes, simply "Dimokratias". In fact, most of the newer street signs in the area for many different streets  go with the simple option and omit Leoforos or Odos.

And that raises an interesting question: Does anyone know if there any official rules/guidelines regarding the Odos/Leoforos distinction?

Regardless, I've been recently going through various official documents, like this one ΑΠΟΦΑΣΗ ΑΡΙΘ. 477 ΑΠΟ ΤΟ ΥΠ' ΑΡΙΘ. 60/2012 ΠΡΑΚΤΙΚΟ ΣΥΝΕΔΡΙΑΣΕΩΣ ΤΟΥ ΔΗΜΟΤΙΚΟΥ ΣΥΜΒΟΥΛΙΟΥ ΛΑΡΙΣΑΙΩΝ. In almost all of the cases, it became apparent that "Odos" is only a distinction, and the actual name is usually inside quotes or in bold/italics. Do note that on the same PDF, every single name (without the Odos of course), is thoroughly explained:

ΦΟΔΕΛΕ :
Το Φόδελε είναι χωριό στην επαρχία Μαλεβιζίου και ομώνυμο Δημοτικό διαμέρισμα του πρώην Δήμου Γαζίου στο Νομό Ηρακλείου (...)

In addition, all of these documents do have a reference to the Article 8 of N. 3463/06, which starts with the following: "Η ονομασία συνοικιών, οδών και πλατειών γίνεται με απόφαση του δημοτικού ή κοινοτικού συμβουλίου, η οποία λαμβάνεται ύστερα από εισήγηση του οικείου τοπικού συμβουλίου ή παρέδρου και σύμφωνη γνώμη επιτροπής, στην οποία συμμετέχουν..."

In my mind at least, this is another sign that "odos" is just a distinction, or a category, or in terms of OSM, just a "highway=road".
Of course, I could simply be wrong.

So, after taking under consideration all of the above, I would go for SOME.

Thanks!

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#31 2016-01-13 07:50:50

nikospag
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From: Piraeus, Greece
Registered: 2012-03-08
Posts: 177
Website

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

This is not a matter of personal perspective, it is a matter of practical computer reality.
Openstreetmap is a map for electronic devices (mainly) and not for printing purposes.  Any information in IT systems is valuable but comes with a price. It consumes computing power and  memory resources.

If that information is worth it (aka: useful) we accept the above price. Otherwise we reject that information.
Also remember nature's law: "keep it simple !".

Names prefix "Οδός" and "Λεωφόρος" are uselss in all terms. When we tag a way as highway=* we mean street (Οδός), and when we tag a way as  highway=motorway/primary/secondaty implies an avenue (Λεωφόρος).
So the information is already there, therefor we MUST NOT re-register it again within the name tag.

Last edited by nikospag (2016-01-26 13:48:23)

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#32 2018-08-01 19:54:57

Te-Ika
Member
Registered: 2018-07-24
Posts: 3

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

Hello everyone!

I am Te-ika, I am an editor with the Kaart ground survey team. We recently did a ground survey in Thessaloniki and nearby cities. I have been reading this thread and just wanted to put my two cents in on the matter.

As per the first post about posting in English I will be posting in English. As another disclaimer, in order to better understand the issue at hand,  I have translated the comments in this thread to English as I do not have a background in Greek. As a result if there are things that I have misunderstood please explain them to me.

There are three points in support of using the "Οδοσ" prefix about which I would like to open a discussion:

1. Digital Maps are a representation of physical features in the real world.
Street signs are a very important feature in the physical world and it is the easiest standard of mapping to have all editors map to what they see on the ground no more. It creates the simplest solution to the standard of data no matter where you go in the world. The "Οδος" prefix is on most street signs in Greece in several different places. I believe, because it has been deemed important enough to be added to the phyiscal street signs all over the country, it should also be important enough to add to the database of OSM.

2. "Οδος" equivalents are used more often in the OSM tagging scheme globally, then they are not used.
In this thread there are several references made to Russia. Russia and now Greece seem to be the exception rather than the rule. In Latin American countries for example you can see the use of "Calle" as the Spanish version of "Οδος" and it is used often and repeatedly even though every road in a certain area has "Calle" in the name. Therefore I believe it important to add the "Οδοσ" prefix in order to stay consistent with the rest of the world and their name tagging scheme. The mission of Openstreetmap is to be the most comprehensive geospatial database on the market. There needs to be consistency in that database. Adding "Οδος" contributes to that consistency.

3. An accurate and comprehensive database is more important than what the capabilities of the technologies of the day.
Adding "Οδος" keeps the data simple for the majority of people who will interact with OSM data in Greece. Therefore I submit that we create a database that is accurate regardless of the computing power of the day. We are continually improving our technological capabilities and so should not concern ourselves over the capabilities of the technology of the day. We should however concern ourselves over the accuracy and comprehensiveness of our database.

For these reasons I would submit the "Οδος" and all other prefixes be added to the streets where they are physically seen on street signs around the entire country. While this is a lot of work it is not only the simplest standard for all users to follow, but it also creates a consistent and ground-verified database of roads in Greece.

Last edited by Te-Ika (2018-08-06 23:25:20)

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#33 2018-08-24 16:15:24

JayCBR
Member
Registered: 2015-03-11
Posts: 184

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

i just noticed some of your edits and i got so upset..who gives you the right to ignore all previous conversations and disrespect other mappers, things like these drive people away from osm

we have already decided to omit οδός and λεωφόρος (this is how you write them) so using οδοσ is completely wrong and unacceptable

you people took advantage of the fact nobody reads the forum any more to force your own thing

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#34 2018-08-29 11:43:39

The Duke of Waltham
Member
Registered: 2016-09-07
Posts: 12

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

I was just coming here for that very thing. Changes are made willy-nilly, neither following established consensus nor reflecting the reality on the ground. For example, there is a pedestrian street in Katerini (properly signposted) called "Αγίου Στυλιανού", and it was changed to a residential street named "Οδοσ Αγ. Στυλιανού". That makes three controversial changes: the addition of "Οδοσ", the abbreviation of part of the name, and the change of the street's classification. And although I will not begrudge anyone the addition of residential buildings to the map, moving buildings such as this from their actual location to another across the street, or tagging them with "surface=asphalt", is certainly a cause for concern.

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#35 2018-09-19 22:03:01

Te-Ika
Member
Registered: 2018-07-24
Posts: 3

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

When these edits were made we were not aware of a strong community opinion on the matter. We did not intend to upset the Greek community. We edited in Greece as we have consistently edited across the world. We apologize for any disruption caused by our editing. We also apologize for any incorrect tags.

The reason for the addition of Οδός is due to what we see physically on the street signs all around the country. Through ground data showed that the majority of the signs in the cities of Thessaloniki, Katerini, Kozani, and Veroia made use of the word "Οδός." However, once knowing the stance of the community on this matter we stopped adding them as we saw them. Again we wish to apologize for causing a disruption. I have responded to direct messages where the issue of Οδός was brought up and responded that I will personally remove Οδός from identified areas, but have received no specification of areas to be addressed. I will personally remove any addition of Oδός from any area that is brought to my attention.

However, the fact remains that across all countries and styles of mapping the most consistent and verifiable method of mapping is adding exactly what you see on the ground to the best of your ability. This standard is easily explained to a brand new contributor and is the most reliable method for the seasoned cartographer. When we only add information that we deem worthy into a digital representation of the physical world, we can no longer trust that representation to be as versatile or as accurate in its use for all platforms.

To the Duke:

While we agree that the name should not have been abbreviated, it was what was written on the sign. This has since been fixed. We are very open to having local editors assist us while we make edits. We see that you did in fact reach out to the editor, yet you only addressed the use of Οδός and not classification or the abbreviated name.
We have reviewed the edit and we have images of this area and the road in question. The road is a one lane asphalt road, likely used often by regular vehicular traffic. This is the definition of pedestrian roads from the wiki:

Wiki wrote:

For roads used mainly/exclusively for pedestrians in shopping and some residential areas which may allow access by motorised vehicles only for very limited periods of the day. To create a 'square' or 'plaza' create a closed way and tag as pedestrian and also with area=yes.

This does not accurately describe the road in question. If we cannot agree that the road is a residential road which is used to access other residential roads, then the more accurate description of this road would be a living street:

Wiki wrote:

For living streets, which are residential streets where pedestrians have legal priority over cars, speeds are kept very low and where children are allowed to play on the street.

Since there was an issue with the classification of the edit, we would highly recommend contacting the editor in question and addressing your grievance. This leads to less confusion in edits and helps educate the OSM contributor base.

The second example you provided regarding the building that was moved to an incorrect location has no history of being edited by any of our editors and only shows yourself as having edited the polygon in the past year. I am not sure I can help explain why that building was in the wrong place. If you would like to provide more evidence that a member of our team was responsible for this move, please inform us. We want to correct any mistakes created.

The last example you provided was simply a mistake by an editor who was still fairly new at the time. Thank you for fixing it. As stated earlier, we hope in the future you will reach out to the editor directly to help them improve their tagging and to help avoid future mistake by that editor.

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#36 2018-09-21 11:09:49

sdoerr
Member
Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 11

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

Te-Ika wrote:

The second example you provided regarding the building that was moved to an incorrect location has no history of being edited by any of our editors and only shows yourself as having edited the polygon in the past year. I am not sure I can help explain why that building was in the wrong place. If you would like to provide more evidence that a member of our team was responsible for this move, please inform us. We want to correct any mistakes created.

The move seems to have happened in changeset 61243416 by user mama_bear on 31 July. This is not immediately obvious from the changeset history, as the way itself was not changed, only the positions of the nodes that make it up. However, you can see the move visualized using Achavi: https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=61243416

--
Steve

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#37 2018-11-05 00:55:11

nikospag
Member
From: Piraeus, Greece
Registered: 2012-03-08
Posts: 177
Website

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

To Kaart team:

I will say that once and very polite.
Ground rule does not apply in Greece. For many reasons, which i will not analyze right now.
We don't use the ground rule, because if we did we wouldn't have a consistent map, because here in Greece nothing is consistent. (on the ground).
And you are claiming that you want to make a consistent map. lol
I seriously doubt about that.

And i insist to the following:
Names prefix "Οδός" and "Λεωφόρος" are uselss in all terms. When we tag a way as highway=* we mean street (Οδός), and when we tag a way as  highway=motorway/primary/secondaty implies a street that is an avenue (Λεωφόρος).
So the information is already there, therefor we MUST NOT re-register it again within the name tag.

And there are other reasons too to why i insist to that. (like because newer street signs omit prefixes "Οδός" and "Λεωφόρος")!!!

So please stop making a mess here. You can go somewhere else, where they use the Latin alphabet.
Thank you.

Last edited by nikospag (2018-11-05 09:29:32)

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#38 2018-11-05 05:57:41

nikospag
Member
From: Piraeus, Greece
Registered: 2012-03-08
Posts: 177
Website

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

This is an example of a newer sign where prefix "Οδός" is omitted.


uc?export=download&id=1Dfh40_cmQIFUt7hbPtNGcSfLrp50_fm6

There are thousands of them.

Last edited by nikospag (2018-11-05 09:35:51)

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#39 2018-11-05 06:53:29

nikospag
Member
From: Piraeus, Greece
Registered: 2012-03-08
Posts: 177
Website

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

And to add something else to the above, OK you are adding street names, but you (all of you) are not doing it the right way. For example you write Αγιας Φωτεινης instead of Αγίας Φωτεινής. Do you know the Greek "tonos"?
So please (and i am saying this again) go to some other country that makes use of the Latin alphabet,
Thank you in advance.

Last edited by nikospag (2018-11-05 06:55:14)

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#40 2018-11-05 21:50:15

ika-chan!
Member
Registered: 2016-10-23
Posts: 65

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

It appears that George_ath has been after the street names, adding the "Οδός" and "Λεωφόρος" back. They don’t belong to name=* at the very least.

See: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/63858220

I know of a tag that would be more appropriate for those who wish to use them, and that’s "name:prefix=*".


No one has to be 100% perfect at OpenStreetMap.

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#41 2018-11-06 03:41:02

nikospag
Member
From: Piraeus, Greece
Registered: 2012-03-08
Posts: 177
Website

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

Prefix "Οδός" and "Λεωφόρος" has been removed from all name tags, all over Greece. Prefix "Odos" and "Leoforos" also has been removed from all int_name tags, all over Greece.

As for the tag name:prefix its ok if someone wants to use it to add the above prefixes, but personally i still think that is useless.
Besides that, this tag is only a proposal. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pro … Indication
(JayCBR said that too, and i agree with that).

Thank you.

PS. User George_ath has been notified.

Last edited by nikospag (2018-11-06 08:59:01)

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#42 2018-11-06 09:26:31

nikospag
Member
From: Piraeus, Greece
Registered: 2012-03-08
Posts: 177
Website

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

(off topic)mister or miss ika-chan! you used keys "STOP_id" at bus  stops. An other user notified me about this (and he was from Russia). Key "STOP_id" doesn't exist any more, as far as i know.
Anyway, this key has been converted to key "ref" (starting from Attica, with a mass edit.)

Also at "Ιερά Οδός" you used this key and value: old_name:en=Sacred Way!!!
We translate the property only and NOT the name. (names must not be translated) eg. "Πλατεία Ελευθερίας" is translated to "Eleftherias square" and not "Freedom square". "Ιερά Οδός" is a name. (I was notified by user George_ath).

Last edited by nikospag (2018-11-06 20:24:00)

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#43 2018-11-06 16:02:26

ika-chan!
Member
Registered: 2016-10-23
Posts: 65

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

I deny that I ever added the STOP_id tag: see https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2515049698/history for evidence that I did not invent that.


No one has to be 100% perfect at OpenStreetMap.

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#44 2018-11-06 20:31:49

nikospag
Member
From: Piraeus, Greece
Registered: 2012-03-08
Posts: 177
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Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

Oops. Sorry ika-chan!. After thorough research, you are right. It was an other user who added STOP_id tags to bus stops.
My previous post has been corrected.
Thank you.

Last edited by nikospag (2018-11-06 20:33:45)

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#45 2018-11-06 21:27:22

ika-chan!
Member
Registered: 2016-10-23
Posts: 65

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

I must advise that how other languages translate our roads may be beyond our control, but I did do tonight is proof-read the "int_names" to ensure they are not over transliterated, so to speak.


No one has to be 100% perfect at OpenStreetMap.

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#46 2018-12-26 23:21:34

Te-Ika
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Registered: 2018-07-24
Posts: 3

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

Hello again,

To Sdoerr,

You are correct. Thank you helping me see what happened. I believe we have addressed these Issues. If not please contact me or the editor in question.

To nikospag,
Thank you for your opinion. Let me provide a little context to what we mean by consistent. When we speak of consistency within an ever changing world we do not mean to say that the we wish to make everything on OSM exactly consistent with every other piece of data that has been or will be added to OSM. We only seek to add data that is consistent between what is a physical reality and what is shown in OSM. This is the only way that anyone can talk about consistency in context of OSM with all of the diverse locations, languages, municipalities etc. that are contained in this ever growing collection of geo-referenced data. We attempt, wherever we go, to add data that is consistent to what we see on the ground. To the effect that if you were to stand where we stood and see the sign that we saw it would be the same as what you see on Openstreetmap. We feel that this leads to better navigation because it takes the guess work out of the end users experience. Our opinions differ on this point.

As a personal question. I do not understand where you explain that "Λεωφόρος" means the same as the classifications motorway|trunk|primary|secondary|tertiary. These classifications seem to me to be different designations of roads within a network. Is it possible for one world to simultaneously mean all of these designations at one time in the greek language? Could you also explain to me how "Οδός" can apply to any highway=* tag? Would the definition be large enough to encompass highway=footway?

Regardless of my own personal curiosities. Our team has been working to eliminate "Οδός" and "Λεωφόρος" from the data as you all have asked.

To that end, a user who no longer exists added this name to a way in Athens. "Παράδρομος Λεωφόρου Κηφισσού" I believe you all would like that not to include "Λεωφόρου" unless the replacement of sigma with upsilon changes the meaning. Either way I was unsure of where else to ask this question so I thought I would ask in this thread.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/224023162/history

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#47 2018-12-27 09:21:58

Map-Finder
Member
Registered: 2018-12-11
Posts: 93

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

@Te-Ika
Λεωφόρος (avenue in english) actually means the wide road that can transport a large mass of vehicles.
But eventually is used for many kind of main roads, that hold a lot of traffic, independently of the width-length of the road.
Prefix "Λεωφόρος" doesn't, any longer sets the standards of each road, but only the priority.
So, since the signs define the name of each road, I dont see the reason to eliminate the prefix "Λεωφόρος".
Many other countries hold this prefix with no problem at all.

Last edited by Map-Finder (2018-12-29 09:49:58)

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#48 2019-02-01 10:48:43

beatnickgr
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 16

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

Αν ο καθένας έκανε ότι του κατέβει, ο ένας θα τάγκαρε Avenue κι ο άλλος Boulevard, ενώ δεν υπάρχει τίποτα τέτοιο στην πινακίδα.
Οι περισσότεροι ξένοι που ξέρω μου λένε "Alexandras street" ή ακόμα και σκέτο "Alexandras", δεν έχω ακούσει ούτε διαβάσει πουθενά για "Alexandra's Avenue" ή "Avenue of Alexandra" οπότε ας πάψουμε να αυθαιρετούμε.

Δεν ταγκάρουμε τίποτα παραπάνω από ότι διαβάζουμε στη ταμπέλα.
Prefix=Λεωφόρος
Name=Αλεξάνδρας
int_name=Alexandras

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#49 2019-02-01 13:20:29

JayCBR
Member
Registered: 2015-03-11
Posts: 184

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

ναι εννοείται, κοινή λογική

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#50 2019-02-01 15:49:09

ika-chan!
Member
Registered: 2016-10-23
Posts: 65

Re: Παράλειψη "Οδός" και "Λεωφόρος" στο tag name και name:el

If I recall correctly, The (unofficial) key was name:prefix=* and not prefix=*. In any case, Λεωφόρος does not belong in name=*


No one has to be 100% perfect at OpenStreetMap.

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