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#1 2018-06-13 17:55:12

evgenykatyshev
Member
From: Nizhny Novgorod
Registered: 2009-06-16
Posts: 1,363
Website

Name tag in Georgia

Wikiproject Georgia Abkhazia South-Ossetia tell that Georgian mappers decided to put both Georgian and English in the name field. There is example:

name=თბილისი (Tbilisi)
name_int=Tbilisi
name:en=Tbilisi
name:ka=თბილისი

In fact name tag in Georgia filled only by Georgian name now, not double names. I think it is better practice when popular application can use name:* tags and a lot of locals not speaking English start map their territories. China, Japan, Korea and neighboring Armenia follow this practice also.

Therefore I propose describe this option on wiki-page with example below:

name=თბილისი
int_name=Tbilisi
name:de=Tiflis
name:en=Tbilisi
name:ka=თბილისი
name:ru=Тбилиси

Also propose separately to clarify that tag int_name filled by romanizationed Georgian name (see wikipedia article), not English. This names you can see on road and address signs.

This proposal agreement not can apply for Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Naming in South Ossetia is being discussed here (see this posts and next one). Rules for this regions propose discuss in other topics.

What do you think about it?

——

На странице википроекта Georgia Abkhazia South-Ossetia говорится, что грузинские участники договорились писать в тег name грузинское и английское название; приведён такой пример:

name=თბილისი (Tbilisi)
name_int=Tbilisi
name:en=Tbilisi
name:ka=თბილისი

По факту сейчас теги name везде заполнены только грузинскими названиями, двойных не встречал. Мне кажется, что такая практика лучше, т. к. популярные приложения уже умеют использовать теги name:*, а в Грузии уже много местных маперов, которые могут и не знать английский. Так же в пример можно привести Китай, Японию, Корею и соседнюю Армению, где в name тоже пишут только название на национальном языке.

Поэтому я предлагаю описать на вики-странице именно такой вариант, добавив следующий пример:

name=თბილისი
int_name=Tbilisi
name:de=Tiflis
name:en=Tbilisi
name:ka=თბილისი
name:ru=Тбилиси

Также предлагаю отдельно уточнить, что в тэг int_name должно вносится не английское название, а транслитерированное грузинское, написанное латиницей (см. статью в Википедии). Такие названия можно видеть на дорожных знаках и адресных аншлагах.

Моё предложение не касается Абхазии и Южной Осетии. Названия в Южной Осетии обсуждались здесь (см.  этот пост и следующий за ним). Правила для этих территорий предлагаю обсуждать в других темах.

Кто что скажет?

Last edited by evgenykatyshev (2018-06-14 12:45:32)


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#2 2018-06-14 12:17:17

Maturi0n
Member
From: Bavaria/Germany
Registered: 2014-06-09
Posts: 223

Re: Name tag in Georgia

I think it's time to officially recognize what's being done anyway: Default "name" tag is for Georgian names only. English is no official language in Georgia and still less widespread than Russian as a foreign language. Forcing the local community to use English will only make mapping harder for them. Also, the decision to add English names in brackets was never really decided by the local community. There was an NGO called JumpStart Georgia, which did most of the initial mapping in Georgia during 2009-2011, and they essentially pushed that practice into OSM. Back in 2010, using English names in brackets might have been a sufficient solution to make the map usable for people that can't read the Georgian alphabet, but today there are much better solutions for map localisation. Most countries with a non-Latin alphabet that had a similiar naming practice (e.g. South Korea) have also dropped the English name from "name" and moved it to "name:en".

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#3 2018-06-14 12:42:06

wowik
Member
From: Zelenograd
Registered: 2009-09-29
Posts: 7,758

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#4 2018-06-14 12:47:06

evgenykatyshev
Member
From: Nizhny Novgorod
Registered: 2009-06-16
Posts: 1,363
Website

Re: Name tag in Georgia

wowik wrote:

name_int  or  int_name ?

Sould be int_name
Wrong tag was in old example. It should be correct too. I edited my message.

Last edited by evgenykatyshev (2018-06-14 12:47:38)


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#5 2018-06-14 13:28:56

Maturi0n
Member
From: Bavaria/Germany
Registered: 2014-06-09
Posts: 223

Re: Name tag in Georgia

Is "int_name" still a thing these days? I see it rarely added these days and often it's just a copy of name:en.

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#6 2018-06-14 13:41:14

evgenykatyshev
Member
From: Nizhny Novgorod
Registered: 2009-06-16
Posts: 1,363
Website

Re: Name tag in Georgia

I doubted now that in Georgia on the plates it is the transliterated name, not the English one. I think both names is same almost always, because most objects in Georgia get English names by transliteration their Georgian names.

Maybe int_name can be omit from instruction.


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#7 2018-06-14 14:07:57

Maturi0n
Member
From: Bavaria/Germany
Registered: 2014-06-09
Posts: 223

Re: Name tag in Georgia

evgenykatyshev wrote:

I doubted now that in Georgia on the plates it is the transliterated name, not the English one. I think both names is same almost always, because most objects in Georgia get English names by transliteration their Georgian names.

Maybe int_name can be omit from instruction.

Well, I was refererring to "int_name" in general. It is almost always used as a copy of "name:en". For example Moscow has int_name="Moscow". More than 90% of people on Earth don't speak English natively, so can there actually be a truly international name of a place?

But back to topic: I'd very much like to have a transliteration/transcription available in Georgia (since you can actually read that out to locals), but isn't the general attitude on OSM negative towards them?

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#8 2018-06-15 18:49:44

Menak Vishap
New Member
Registered: 2018-06-15
Posts: 1

Re: Name tag in Georgia

Definitely, the tag "name" must contain Georgian name spelled with Georgian letters, without any brackets and Latin versions. It is the common practice for all countries with non-Latin letters. The English, Russian names, etc., should be placed in tags "name:en", "name:ru", etc. correspondingly.

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#9 2018-06-18 10:08:45

Maturi0n
Member
From: Bavaria/Germany
Registered: 2014-06-09
Posts: 223

Re: Name tag in Georgia

Menak Vishap wrote:

Definitely, the tag "name" must contain Georgian name spelled with Georgian letters, without any brackets and Latin versions. It is the common practice for all countries with non-Latin letters. The English, Russian names, etc., should be placed in tags "name:en", "name:ru", etc. correspondingly.

I fully agree with that. Especially since Georgia has only one official language.

I think it's also necessary to find a formal agreement for name tagging in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. As per OSM's on-the-ground-rule Georgian should not be used in these regions, as they are not controlled by Georgia and Georgian is generally not used on signs there and not widely understood or used.

Currently, in Abkhazia, POIs and roads use Russian only. For place names, most larger settlements are tagged like this: "Аҟәа - Сухум" (Abkhaz name - Russian name). For most smaller villages, the Abkhaz name is missing and they're tagged in Russian only. Abkhazia has two official languages, Abkhaz and Russian, although Russian is more widely used. So, tagging is a bit inconsequent here, but full bilingual tagging in Abkhaz and Russian would take years to be anywhere near complete. Any ideas here?

South Ossetia also has two official languages, Ossetian and Russian, but in OSM only Ossetian is used for default names, although ~95% of objects are also tagged with "name:ru". Should we establish this as the generally accepted consensus for South Ossetia?

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#10 2018-07-03 11:46:58

BAQRO
New Member
Registered: 2018-07-03
Posts: 1

Re: Name tag in Georgia

name=თბილისი
int_name=Tbilisi
name:de=Tiflis
name:en=Tbilisi
name:ka=თბილისი
name:ru=Тбилиси

Hi guys, I'm here for the first time writing my first comment.
I think the above quoted naming style should be used in Georgia (name= in Georgian).
I'm using this style when updating info on maps.

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