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#26 2017-07-11 17:00:27

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

Kadaz wrote:

<history lecture> big_smile

I see. <out-of-topic> Ok, at least I tembak Hong Kong is using Traditional Chinese is correct <back into topic>. Many thanks for your sharing.

angys wrote:

The street name retain Traditional cuz that brought historic value to the town as George Town.

I'm not sure about Alor Setar's Pekan Cina case. Probably sign name in Traditional Chinese was suggested to the Majlis Bandaraya.

angys wrote:

[...] just like now Malay Language commonly uses Rumi and sometime use Jawi.If like that,Kelantan's citiies name will be changed to Jawi?:) [...]

Terengganu only. Place name and street names (if I recall correctly) has both in the Latin (rumi) and Arabic script (jawi).

Kelantan place names are strictly using the Latin script, but street signs and shops have both. Chinese shops may have both, with Chinese name.

The Latin (rumi) script goes into the name=* value. Because it's written prominently (the biggest). The Arabic script (jawi) would be written smaller, and if I were tagging this, I would put in separate key-value pair. So far, I haven't checked yet what is the standard tag.

Some renderer (or apps) would have trouble displaying both scripts at the same time, so I avoid putting both like this e.g. name=Kuala Terengganu كوالا ترڠڬانو. Well, OSM asks us to put names as you would see on the sign. So jawi has special tag, and if someone has the time, s/he can make a special OSM website to display that too.

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2017-07-11 17:58:16)

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#27 2017-07-11 18:40:51

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 627

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

"Jalan Penjara Lama" - "Old Prison Road": if you misspell the Malay/Jawi/Chinese version, you know where you will stay next! big_smile
"name=Kuala Terengganu كوالا ترڠڬانو" ... ehm, the Jawi version displays wrongly in your post, but I only copied it from there, and now it looks correct in the editor... What did happen here?

Last edited by Bernhard Hiller (2017-07-11 18:41:30)

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#28 2017-07-12 01:25:10

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

"Jalan Penjara Lama" - "Old Prison Road": if you misspell the Malay/Jawi/Chinese version, you know where you will stay next! big_smile

Don't get caught making mistakes then! lol

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

<Jawi>

Probably something to do with your browser? I'm using (desktop) Firefox, and a quick browse through Edge and Google Chrome looks fine too. At least you're not seeing squares. big_smile

By the way, I've asked around, which gives a hint and found this. On top of that, OSM Wiki follows the same scheme - Main Page in Traditional Chinese is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Zh:hant:Main_Page while in Simplified Chinese is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Zh:hans:Main_Page.

So, name:zh should follow straight from street sign (on-the-ground rule). If it is in Traditional, to add its name in Simplified, then use name:zh-hans. And if it is in Simplified, to include its name in Traditional, use name:zh-hant.

Side note: still looking the way to add Jawi names. A Wikipedia page suggests ms-Arab though, but needs further verification.

Edit: desktop

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2017-07-12 02:39:21)

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#29 2017-07-12 06:29:00

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

Actually Jawi scripylt already displayed on Perak, Terengganu and Pahang.(But Please not do all the state have Jawi Script, only Malays state as Terengganu, Pahang...)

The Mandarin script that I just classify already so that use simplified first and traditional next.Alor Setar now only have three official roadsign and as I know that Pahang (Kuantan) have a roadsign in simplified chinese near and called Qinzhou road.The jawi script should do another tag or use the name=ar.

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#30 2017-07-12 08:27:26

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

angys wrote:

Actually Jawi scripylt already displayed on Perak, Terengganu and Pahang.(But Please not do all the state have Jawi Script, only Malays state as Terengganu, Pahang...)

Street names, probably yes (like the picture). Place name (like below picture), officially only Terengganu (I guess) includes Jawi. User:kucai, please stand up, please stand up... lol lol lol

thumb-2048.jpg
Mapillary

angys wrote:

The jawi script should do another tag or use the name=ar.

Cannot use name=ar because it's for Arabic. Map users from the Middle East would feel annoyed, with never before seen letters and weird spellings.

SMAPL%27S_landmark.jpg
Wikimedia Commons

So if we use name=ar for Jawi, the text over the Latin script is in Modern Standard Arabic. Then you have another problem because in Jawi, it's "سكوله منڠه اڬام ڤرسكوتوان لابو". The (kind of official) Arabic translation is "المعهد الإسلامي الفدرالي".

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#31 2017-07-12 17:26:24

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 627

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

AkuAnakTimur wrote:

I'm using (desktop) Firefox, ... looks fine too. At least you're not seeing squares.

I found the reason: the browser had to break the line between "كوالا" and "ترڠڬانو" - "Kuala" was in the first line, "Terengganu"  in the next line, hence the order was wrong (and I am now fed up with trying to copy those arab texts...).
Just change the width of your browser window, and look at it (try it with that long school name, that's easiest).

By the way, the Jawi version "Kampong Gong Pauh" looks more like "Kampong Gong Pa-'uh", with a glottal stop between a and u. Are such strange transliterations normal, or is it an exception (or is that place name really pronounced so strangely)?

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#32 2017-07-12 17:39:51

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 627

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

Kadaz wrote:

add roads name.. POI and etc...
...
I wish OSM system able to identify all roads & buildings automatically so we only need to enter road names, address and etc...

Adding road names, POIs etc. is actually the most important job for mappers in the region: tracing from imagery can be done from anywhere in the world, but (normally) you won't be able to trace a road name/reference number from the imagery. Also POIs are hard to find; schools, Thai style temples, and some mosques can be detected. But hotels, restaurants, shops, hospitals, police stations, ... can't. So I think it is great that you want to do that job.
And not to forget that information may get outdated: e.g. a shop may close and a different kind of shop may open at its place.

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#33 2017-07-12 18:06:25

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

[...] the browser had to break the line [...]

siVIp8E.png

Like above screenshot? Were you browsing through a mobile phone? big_smile At least it makes reading easier because RTL and LTR formats is still much like oil and water.

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

By the way, the Jawi version "Kampong Gong Pauh" looks more like "Kampong Gong Pa-'uh", with a glottal stop between a and u. Are such strange transliterations normal, or is it an exception (or is that place name really pronounced so strangely)?

You have made me reopen the Jawi textbook. Lucky me Google helped a lot. lol.

In Jawi, the hamzah letter is used to indicate separate contiguous vowels, see more examples in page three, rule 8(b) in this US Library of Congress document. Without the hamzah, certainly it's pronounced diferrently - Pau(ha/hi/hu). Also see that the wau looks like a consonant, (because it's almost bedtime - I'm not sure whether this is correct), the pronounciation is Pa-wuh. But beware of this little hamzah - it could play a lot of tricks depending on its position.

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2017-07-12 18:19:53)

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#34 2017-07-13 13:36:02

Kadaz
Member
Registered: 2017-06-29
Posts: 11

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

@AkuAnakTimur
I just realized that we can edit the tags so this probably solve the problem.
But how do we request OSM to add zh-hans and zh-hant to the default language list? This will make the work easier and less conflict in the future.

@Bernhard Hiller
Yup. Will keep update during spare time.

BTW, I’ve turned off battery optimization (Android) and excluded OamAnd from Greenify but still it stopped GPS recording after few minutes with screen off. I’m out of luck to solve this problem. So basically I have to keep the screen on for recording GPS tracks. sad

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#35 2017-07-13 17:10:39

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

Huhu... apparently there was a detour tongue Back to our discussion!

Kadaz wrote:

But how do we request OSM to add zh-hans and zh-hant to the default language list?

We don't have to request it - see this discussion in help.openstreetmap.org. I was just commenting, but my comment apparently changed into the answer.

So, I have updated the Malaysian guide on OSM Wiki. Feedbacks are definitely welcomed!

Kadaz wrote:

[...] (Android) and excluded OamAnd from Greenify but still it stopped GPS recording after few minutes with screen off. [...]

Which version of Android are you on right now? I have one device on 6.0 (unrooted) - when I installed Greenify long time ago, track recording apps stopped working a minute or two after my device entered sleep mode. I've uninstalled Greenify already, I'm not sure if there's a way to put OsmAnd in a whitelist.

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2017-07-13 17:12:14)

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#36 2017-07-14 16:37:18

Kadaz
Member
Registered: 2017-06-29
Posts: 11

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

@AkuAnakTimur

Maybe I was over worry about edit-war between zh_CH and zh_TW.
In worst case, for example: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/curious-case-g … te-1576834

Since Taiwanese do not raise the issue up yet, so I’ll just stop the topic here. tongue

I’m using Android 6.0 (rooted), found a setting in Display – Sleep, but it should be just turning the screen off not all the background services. Not sure about that, will try to switch it to 30 mins and see.. or disable greenify.

Last edited by Kadaz (2017-07-14 16:47:51)

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#37 2017-07-15 06:01:19

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

Kadaz actually for non-Mandarin speaking city as state capital commonsly follow first come first serve rule that mean id the script already displayed in Traditional then no necessary to change it to Simplified.Doing this(edit warring)is wasting time because both of them are Mandarin. I agree that Pekan Cina Alor Setar, UNESCO Historic zone(George Town and Melaka City)used traditional and other use simplified one.

Maybe your phone needs to uninstall program?:|

Last edited by angys (2017-07-15 06:02:05)

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#38 2017-07-15 12:30:33

Kadaz
Member
Registered: 2017-06-29
Posts: 11

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

@angys
Aha.. I found the culprit!
Just disable the "Aggressive Doze" setting in Greenify solved the problem, yeh~ big_smile

Last edited by Kadaz (2017-07-15 14:32:13)

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#39 2017-07-17 14:35:35

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

Kadaz wrote:

Maybe I was over worry about edit-war between zh_CH and zh_TW.

Well, actually, they can't persuade any Malaysians to choose side. tongue So, in a nutshell, simply map from what's on the sign, then the accessory tags should actually do their wonders.

Sure, this kind of mapping is kind of slow, but hey, at least conflicts will be averted in the future.

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#40 2017-07-18 00:55:34

kucai
Member
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 137

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

If still in doubt, we can always use zh_IPOH_MALI ..  lol

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#41 2017-07-18 07:50:09

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Greeting from a new mapper

no doubt this will occur , if that really happens I (and your all ) will revert that.Haha

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