OpenStreetMap Forum

The Free Wiki World Map

You are not logged in.

Announcement

A fix has been applied to the login system for the forums - if you have trouble logging in please contact support@openstreetmap.org with both your forum username and your OpenStreetMap username so we can make sure your accounts are properly linked.

#26 2012-08-17 23:35:15

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 513

Re: Israel GTFS release

I just found two interesting slides.

http://www.slideshare.net/shelef/the-ad … -in-israel
http://www.slideshare.net/shelef/transi … te-2012-v4

Very interesting that there is no word about Openstreetmap.
Maybe we should tell him how great the step was for Openstreetmap.

What do you think?

Offline

#27 2012-12-11 23:56:18

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 234

Re: Israel GTFS release

I was wondering why our imported bus stop refs always differs from the id printed in the real bus stop sign.
The original text files has two fields - stop_id and stop_code. As I understand, we used stop_code for ref field.
I think it's better to use the actual ID printed on bus stop's sign so we'll be easier to confirm existing stops.

Anybody have other opinion?

Offline

#28 2012-12-12 09:25:06

yxejamir
Member
From: Israel
Registered: 2011-12-02
Posts: 6

Re: Israel GTFS release

I noticed that, too, but did not say anything because I am not familiar with the implementation details.

yrtimiD wrote:

I think it's better to use the actual ID printed on bus stop's sign so we'll be easier to confirm existing stops.

I agree; if stop_id is really what’s printed on the signs, then it would make much more sense to use those for physical cross-reference.

Offline

#29 2012-12-14 01:25:26

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 234

Re: Israel GTFS release

I just finished to upload a changeset (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14265835)
The new values as follows:

stop_id -> gtfs:id
stop_code -> ref

eric22, Important note for you: If you going to do further imports, please be sure you change your scripts.

I have chosen gtfs:id tag name, but if somebody have better idea for the name - it's not a problem to change.

Also, I found 93 missed bus stops. Possible they recently have been added to the gtfs files, or were deleted by users.
IMHO, for future route imports we may not delete stops which isn't exist phisically, but may mark them, for example, as proposed:

highway=proposed
proposed=bus_stop

I'm ready to upload this set of missed stops at any time.

Offline

#30 2012-12-14 09:44:03

eric22
Member
Registered: 2010-07-04
Posts: 113

Re: Israel GTFS release

I have no current plans to update the bus stops, but I've made a note to myself this.

Feel free to upload the missed stops.

Offline

#31 2012-12-19 15:58:34

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 234

Re: Israel GTFS release

Guys, I talked with owners of Moovit application http://www.moovit.co.il/.
It's very nice application for public transport which also use data from GTFS and our map.

Asked them to work together on fixing and updating current GTFS data and they appear very cooperative and will be happy to sync bus stop info two way.

Here is a part of their answer:

We do have all stations from the GTFS database in additions to new stations and existing station corrections by users (this is already possible from the app - tap a station on the map, and then tap the location icon ).

We would love to cooperate with you guys. How were you planning to validate the data? do you send people to do that?
Cc to this mail is Roy, our co-founder, which will send you a list with all the stations we have, their ID, and their updated xy location according to the latest info we have.
Let's think of the most efficient process that you can incorporate every change we make from here on in your data and vise verse.

Offline

#32 2012-12-22 20:34:34

Tzafrir Cohen
Member
Registered: 2012-10-29
Posts: 27

Re: Israel GTFS release

Where can I find more information on specific GTFS IDs?

See my http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14370035 from today.
I added some more information on th Hatzor bus terminal. There were some six stations scattered around it that seem to have been related. I'm not sure what they all mean.

Offline

#33 2012-12-22 20:52:32

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 234

Re: Israel GTFS release

Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

Where can I find more information on specific GTFS IDs?

What kind of information you need? Explanations about whole GTFS data you can find at http://tinyurl.com/chhb6wn
For now, you can confirm/move actual position of the bus stop by comparing its ref value with actual code printed on bus stop label.

Offline

#34 2015-10-08 15:06:59

alexy
New Member
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 2

Re: Israel GTFS release

What is current agreement on what to do with bus stops imported from GTFS if they do not exist or have different names/numbers from existing stops?

For example, I found a bunch of bus_stop POIs with different 'ref' values close to each other, but in reality in that place there is a bus stop with a number that is different to all of them.
Should I try to find a bus_stop POI with that existing number and move it to real position? Or change a ref value (and name value) of the existing POI?
How should I merge several bus_stop POIs into one if there is only one stop in reality?

Offline

#35 2015-10-23 22:29:57

alexy
New Member
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 2

Re: Israel GTFS release

No replies, seems that I'm late for couple of years for main Israel OSM activity smile

In the meantime, I downloaded current GTFS data and found that it's much more accurate (at least in the places where I could check the real situation) than data uploaded to OSM in 2012.

I managed to run GO_Sync app mentioned in the first posts here, solving encoding problem with -Dfile.encoding parameter:

java -Xmx1200M -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 -jar gtfs-osm-sync-1.0-SNAPSHOT-jar-with-dependencies.jar

(added -Xmx1200M because it is crashed with out of memory after analyzing all stops)
But as current OSM data has no specific GO_Sync tags, GO_Sync can't help a lot with updating current data.

Probably all current bus_stop POIs that are sourced from GTFS should be removed from OSM and new POIs uploaded in GO_Sync-compatible manner? After that, we will be able update the stops with GO_Sync in the future.
On the other side, if some of the POIs were fixed manually, we'll lose this work.

I also played a little with stops CSV file and extracted data from GTFS description into different columns (city, address, floor, platform), they can be put into separate tags as well.

I've never made such big uploads to OSM so I need an advise from more experienced mappers.

Last edited by alexy (2015-10-24 22:01:26)

Offline

#36 2017-07-07 11:01:44

SwiftFast
Member
Registered: 2017-04-10
Posts: 394
Website

Re: Israel GTFS release

The current OSM bus stops are 5 years old and are significantly different from the most up to date Israel GTFS in some areas. I am looking into ways of updating this in a way that guarantees easy periodic syncing.

Last edited by SwiftFast (2017-07-07 11:01:57)

Offline

#37 2017-07-07 11:06:34

SwiftFast
Member
Registered: 2017-04-10
Posts: 394
Website

Re: Israel GTFS release

OSM statistics:

  • 33,519 total bus stops

  • 1,622 have neither gtfs:id nor ref

  • 31,932 have either gtfs:id or ref

  • 31,930 have ref

  • 2 bus stops have gtfs:id but not ref

  • 35 bus stops have ref but not gtfs:id

Last edited by SwiftFast (2017-07-07 11:17:43)

Offline

#38 2017-07-07 12:44:18

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 234

Re: Israel GTFS release

SwiftFast, last time when I did a bulk update the rule was simple: gtfs:id is the internal id for back reference to gtfs data, and ref is actual number of stop written on yellow signs. Bus stops w/o any of these ids are usually old and added manually, in many cases they can be merged with gtfs ones.

Offline

#39 2017-07-08 07:33:12

SwiftFast
Member
Registered: 2017-04-10
Posts: 394
Website

Re: Israel GTFS release

Thanks. So correlation appears to be quite simple, but I think merging should be a bit more sophisticated.

The simple way to merge is to just remove all existing nodes and re-add. I think this is not suitable for frequent periodic updates. (It destroys history, manually added tags like "sheltered", and needlessly causes the entire IHM to re-render).

My initial plan (subject to many changes) is roughly like this:

  • Turn the GTFS into a  JOSM bus_stop layer using GO_Sync

  • Grab the current OSM bus_stops to a different layer using Overpass API.

  • Merge the two layers

  • Use the JOSM Scripting plugin to detect and merge the different identical nodes (based on ref/gtfs:id and even distance), preserving node IDs and manual tags.

  • Somehow delete the bus stops that are no longer in the GTFS.

The script should be reusable, allowing it to be shared with the community. Also, before starting I need to make sure nobody has already solved this before.

Last edited by SwiftFast (2017-07-08 07:33:39)

Offline

#40 2017-07-08 07:54:35

SwiftFast
Member
Registered: 2017-04-10
Posts: 394
Website

Re: Israel GTFS release

Also, I might be underestimating GO-Sync since I have not tried it. It might save me the trouble of writing a script, if it can perform syncs in a smart way.

Offline

#41 2017-07-08 08:39:12

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 234

Re: Israel GTFS release

Another case you should think about: gtfs coordinates appeared as not very accurate, so many bus stops were moved manually to their real location. I marked all imported stops with fixme tag asking to verify location and existance. So, stops with fixme are free to be moved, but stops without fixme tag should be handled separately.

Offline

#42 2017-07-16 12:54:05

SwiftFast
Member
Registered: 2017-04-10
Posts: 394
Website

Re: Israel GTFS release

Can I remove all the auto-added bus-stop fixmes? They are shadowing real fixmes.

Offline

#43 2017-07-16 12:55:06

SwiftFast
Member
Registered: 2017-04-10
Posts: 394
Website

Re: Israel GTFS release

yrtimiD wrote:

Another case you should think about: gtfs coordinates appeared as not very accurate, so many bus stops were moved manually to their real location. I marked all imported stops with fixme tag asking to verify location and existance. So, stops with fixme are free to be moved, but stops without fixme tag should be handled separately.

Thanks. I will consider that too.

Offline

#44 2017-07-24 09:20:11

SwiftFast
Member
Registered: 2017-04-10
Posts: 394
Website

Re: Israel GTFS release

Can I remove the GTFS fixmes? They're shadowing legitimate fixmes and there's 30k of them.

Offline

#45 2017-07-24 17:15:29

dsh4
Member
Registered: 2017-06-24
Posts: 41

Re: Israel GTFS release

+1 from me (for what it's worth), I agree that they're shadowing.  Will there be another way to identify all the stops that are currently marked fixme?  E.g. would they be added to a new 'stops for review' relation or something?

Offline

#46 2017-07-26 23:09:35

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 234

Re: Israel GTFS release

SwiftFast wrote:

Can I remove the GTFS fixmes? They're shadowing legitimate fixmes and there's 30k of them.

They was added to draw an attention of editors to low quality data import. I don't see any better way of doing this and IMHO, they are not less important than any other fixme. If current gtfs data will be more accurate - we can easily clear all fixmes.

Offline

#47 2017-07-29 14:29:18

SwiftFast
Member
Registered: 2017-04-10
Posts: 394
Website

Re: Israel GTFS release

Were there any specific examples of seriously inaccurate GTFS data (e.g. more than 5-10 meters)? Or was it just a general suspicion of the import accuracy?

Offline

#48 2017-07-29 14:46:04

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 234

Re: Israel GTFS release

I can't give you any exact statistics, but I saw many stops on wrong side of the road and too far from their real location. Even moovit added option to report correct location.

Offline

#49 2017-07-30 08:48:34

Sanniu
Member
Registered: 2017-04-19
Posts: 23

Re: Israel GTFS release

SwiftFast wrote:

Were there any specific examples of seriously inaccurate GTFS data (e.g. more than 5-10 meters)? Or was it just a general suspicion of the import accuracy?

I've fixed many stops in Rishon that was on the wrong street side or at another block (it may be 10-20 meters, but if you coming from the side street it will be the right turn instead of left one, and pedestrian turn-by-turn routing will fail in that case)

Offline

#50 2017-07-31 16:53:57

dsh4
Member
Registered: 2017-06-24
Posts: 41

Re: Israel GTFS release

Is there a way to tag the nodes as 'position is inaccurate' in a way that routers, etc will understand?  Something like a precision=10m tag?

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB