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#1 2017-03-21 05:41:56

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Taman perumahan or housing estates

My usual practice is just tagging it as a closed way with landuse=residential tag only. Not including any kind of place=*. Unless their boundary is unable to be determined accurately, then only I decided to (temporarily) use the place=* tag.

Just to know what everyone thinks (or even each other's tagging practice), because there's a user is currently adding the place=* (usually neighbourhood) tag to every one of them. No idea why, probably just to make it seen through the MAPS.ME app (landuse=residential is not rendered by that app). But my all time favourite OsmAnd will show landuse=residential.

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2017-03-23 14:23:19)

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#2 2017-03-30 09:16:34

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

Yes I do it and you got the reason why I am doing this.Tag this is efficent and the MAPS.ME user can see the missing Taman or something else...Just some little edits and currently only do on Kedah 8-9 district and Perlis Penang.Hope u can accept it.

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#3 2017-03-30 13:22:27

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

angys wrote:

... Hope u can accept it.

Not blaming you, the app developer should face the music. Though the app is excellent at certain things, however, some things are not rendered (shown) properly, another example is highway rest areas.

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#4 2017-03-31 06:00:50

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

Maybe I should tell the app developer.. and other residental I will just ignore it from now , OK?

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#5 2017-03-31 15:58:52

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

Well, the only place to tell te developer so that the app could show landuse=residential is through this page.

By the way, we could discuss how to tag things now (this thread is about taman perumahan). Who knows, change of heart, and I (and of course, the rest) might agree with your opinions.

To be honest, I simply follow the practice of the others, so that everything looks uniform. Since OSM comes from the UK, I usually copy how the UK users tag things. Small housing estates (with names) tagged with landuse=residential simply didn't use place=neighbourhood. Probably I have stuck to that practice until today, well, because taman here in Kedah are not usually very big in size.

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#6 2017-04-02 04:09:48

kucai
Member
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 137

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

I kinda remembered reading the neighborhood vs suburb thing. Neighborhood is when you have blurry boundary, suburb when you really know where boundary is, outside of towns these are usually not used in preference to village or hamlet. But things go really ugly when you have kampungs - "neighborhood" in newer cities especially. Is landuse and place mutually exclusive?

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#7 2017-04-02 13:57:10

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

I think neighbourhood is for Taman in urban place as Penang Selangor or KL... Hamlet is Taman/Kampung yang kecil that means at rural are as Kelantan Terengganu.Suburb is a place under a urban city as now Sungai Dua in Penang mostly under at Butterworth.Village is for a big kampung and Perkampungan as Berapit BM..The last line I dont know how to answer it, maybe just keep?

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#8 2017-04-03 08:46:43

kucai
Member
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 137

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

I started to restrict the use of village after re-reading the wiki a couple years ago. Village & hamlet is assigned for places disconnected from town/city by some distance. From my experience,  hamlet is rare in semenanjung since it is used for really really small village. I started using neighbourhood/suburb for any village that has a continuous settlement all the way to the city boundary. Still named Kampung though.

Kampung Baru & Kampung Pandan is very good example of suburb, I would think.

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#9 2017-04-06 06:44:00

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

Sorry, busy mapping these few days. big_smile

kucai wrote:

[...] neighborhood vs suburb thing [...]

Suburb is not a place outside a distinct town or city. Remember, we don't follow US English in OSM (confusing, right?). Things are in UK English because OSM's birthplace is the UK.

From the Wiki, somehow, ideally... city/town -> suburb -> neighbourhood. Lines in below diagram does not mean administrative boundaries.

ESPCoKM.png

However, place=neighbourhood is compelling because from (recently I referred to) the Wiki,

A neighbourhood is a named, geographically localised place. It may be an area [...] within a smaller settlement [...]

Don't know, but it feels... fitting. But the problem is, for example, kampungs (place=villages) in Kedah haven't been tagged yet. So, probably just me, it feels a bit out of place to put place=neighbourhood.

kucai wrote:

Is landuse and place mutually exclusive?

No. Because if the landuse tag exists, then a boundary has been set for that certain place. Which somehow makes me feel OK to use place=neighbourhood to tag taman perumahan. But definitely I won't put place=village or place=hamlet because taman perumahan is definitely neither.

kucai wrote:

[...] kampungs - "neighborhood" in newer cities [...]

kucai wrote:

[...] Kampung Baru & Kampung Pandan is very good example of suburb, I would think. [...]

I agree, and also all those kampung baru in Batu Caves as well. They're very distinct, but overlapping with nearby areas. No "boundary" to put things simple.

angys wrote:

I think neighbourhood is for Taman in urban place as Penang Selangor or KL...

I think of Bandar Cassia too. Ada bandar kat nama saja, but it's a huge residential area.

angys wrote:

Suburb is a place under a urban city as now Sungai Dua in Penang mostly under at Butterworth.

Please refer to the first diagram. And compare to this one:

aVIVXIP.png

Based on my observations (went there last December), Permatang Pauh and Sungai Dua is somewhat a small town (still place=town). They are separate, not "inside" Butterworth. Bagan Dalam and Butterworth is correct, also Bandar Perda and Bukit Mertajam.

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2017-04-06 11:52:37)

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#10 2017-04-08 02:53:58

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

Ok.maybe far but the goverment and residents commons know as Sungai Dua is under Butterworth because its postcode.Permatang Pauh is in SPT so absolute not a suburb forButterworth and is a town.Bandar Cassia can put suburb too just like Bandar Perda, both 2 is a new develop place and had a shopping mall(as former AEON Bukit Mertajam locate at BP and IKEA will be open at BC future),so maybe the tagging for 2 is Ok.Maybe you should come to SPT and SPU to add some Taman and tag it in place=neighbourhood next time also some kampung rood are not shown now like Kampung Selamat..  Bandar Cassia now is famous for Design Village so maybe the developer think Bandar Cassia is a '''village''' too.

So the usage for suburb, neighbourhood, hamlet, village is already clear now I think.And the place=neighbourhood or place=hamlet can add this too.

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#11 2017-04-20 17:31:21

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

No wonder I don't feel right using this tag. It kind of messes around with Nominatim: the way how OSM gives addresses to a place. Right click Show address and see what I mean.

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#12 2017-04-20 17:37:33

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

??

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#13 2017-04-20 17:38:56

angys
Member
From: Bukit Mertajam, Penang
Registered: 2016-06-10
Posts: 36

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

What do you mean.Your opinion is not to put place for landuse.Is it yes or not?

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#14 2017-04-22 06:12:11

AkuAnakTimur
Member
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Taman perumahan or housing estates

Just remembered the first reason why I don't use place=neighbourhood liberally. I will explain more later.

OSM address (Nominatim) format is roughly like this: <neighbourhood> <suburb> <city/town> <district> ... up to country. Probably OK if place=neighbourhood is tagged together with landuse=residential.

But if only place=neighbourhood, then somehow Nominatim would give out weird addresses. Try right click on the main map, choose Show address. That's why if you see my edits, I used to stick with place=locality but that tag should be used for places where people don't live (anymore) - refer Wiki.

Tag place=neighbourhood alone apparently covers 1km in radius.

Last edited by AkuAnakTimur (2017-04-22 06:12:46)

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