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#1 2017-03-01 16:21:09

Georgi St Georgiev
Member
Registered: 2017-03-01
Posts: 4

Ударения в имената

Здравейте,

Търсих из форума, но не намерих теми свързани с ударенията в имената.
Случва се имената на дадени обекти (най-често населени места) да имат не съвсем логични ударения за не местните. Затова си мисля, че може би е добре в името на обекта да се добавя и ударенито и да се добави името без ударение като допълнително поле за да не се възпрепядства търсенето.
Аз съм сравнително нов и не знам другите държави как решават проблема.
Проверих за женевския квартал Паки. На френски е Les Pâquis, но търсачката го намира и като Les Paquis, дори и без да го има специално като име без ударение.
Ако вече е обсъждан проблемът, моля да ми дадете линк, защото не можах да намеря.

Поздрави,
Георги

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#2 2017-03-05 22:47:14

BollWeevil
Member
Registered: 2012-11-12
Posts: 45

Re: Ударения в имената

Това звучи като добра идея. Нямам сиурен отговор, но вероятно e най-подходящо за тази цел да се позва тагът alt_name: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name

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#3 2017-03-06 13:05:31

Georgi St Georgiev
Member
Registered: 2017-03-01
Posts: 4

Re: Ударения в имената

Здравейте,
От тук става ясно, че търсачката трябва да игнорира ударенията
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nam … cters_etc.
В името на български може да се добавят ударенията, използвайки "Combining Grave Accent" https://unicode-table.com/en/0300/, и това не би трябвало да създаде проблеми.
На кирилица съществуват ѝ и ѐ, но може би е по-добре и за тях да се използва "Combining Grave Accent", за да се избегнат проблеми с търсачката.
Поздрави,
Георги

Last edited by Georgi St Georgiev (2017-03-06 15:13:26)

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#4 2017-03-06 17:42:32

wowik
Member
From: Zelenograd
Registered: 2009-09-29
Posts: 6,623

Re: Ударения в имената

Здрасти!
The best way is to use special tag for names with stress because not all programs properly skip "Combining Grave Accent" and so on.

Например https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key … ord_stress

Last edited by wowik (2017-03-06 19:24:42)

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#5 2017-03-07 12:48:28

Georgi St Georgiev
Member
Registered: 2017-03-01
Posts: 4

Re: Ударения в имената

Привет,
Was wonder how one can make sure that it will appear on the map. I think that the main advantage of having a field for accented name may be to make it reveal on the map out of the box, and in addition to that we may have a non accented field to avoid search problems. So to me it makes much more sense to have accented name in "name:bg" and to add special a tag "name:bg:word_nostress" for non accented, unless there are some other considerations which i might miss...
Cheers,
Georgi

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#6 2017-03-07 16:18:42

wowik
Member
From: Zelenograd
Registered: 2009-09-29
Posts: 6,623

Re: Ударения в имената

Добър вечер!
1) Usually maps do not contain stress information.
2) Not only map renders use name, name:lang tags so change meaning of the tags could be considered as a sort of vandalism smile Some software could stop work properly with such data. For example tag addr:street on a building should have exactly the same value as tag name on the street way.

A main potential consumer of stress data is text-to-speach systems.
When navigator program says street or place names with wrong stress it upsets users.
This is the main propose the tag name:ru:word_stress is introduced after long discussion in users:Russia: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtop … =10766&p=9

There are about a thousand tags in OSM http://taginfo.openstreetmap.ru/keys/na … ord_stress

As noted here MAPS.ME uses name:ru:word_stress to show names of streets, places, rail road stations.

So usage or not such tag on the map is the question of appropriate render.

Last edited by wowik (2017-03-07 16:37:43)

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#7 2017-03-07 19:28:27

Georgi St Georgiev
Member
Registered: 2017-03-01
Posts: 4

Re: Ударения в имената

Привет,
Of course it is cool to hear properly pronounced names by the text to speech synthesizers but I thing that it is also essential for the users to pronounce names properly. In different regions of BG the accents of the names may vary, which sometimes makes it difficult to guess.
Do you have any suggestions for a non vandalistic approach for providing users with accent information visible on the map? smile
Okay this conflicts with your "1)" but since accents appear on maps with languages of Latin origin, I thought in a BG map they could also do.
And yes, accents are not fundamental for Bulgarian (except some rare cases) but such information certainly will facilitate communication with other people.
Cheers,
Georgi

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#8 2017-03-09 11:43:11

wowik
Member
From: Zelenograd
Registered: 2009-09-29
Posts: 6,623

Re: Ударения в имената

Georgi St Georgiev wrote:

approach for providing users with accent information visible on the map?

1) Introduce a new tag. Make a documentation.
2) Start to use it where needed.
3) Tell about it to osm-based program developers.
4) Approve a tag via standard procedure (it also help to promote it).
5) Modify (or make own) software to show how it works. Run own version of the map service.
6) Wait another people start support the tag.

4) and 5) are rather optional but very useful.

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