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#51 2012-11-29 16:58:46

eric22
Member
Registered: 2010-07-04
Posts: 110

Re: Highway classification

The general rules are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_Israel
However, we don't know exactly what "urban" means. Also, OSM does not always specify which roads have a built-up dividing area.

According to this site (and others I found by googling), there are also a number of exceptions, which may change with time.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ … Ld4ooajTj4

So you can't rely on OSM for a definitive list. You could derive a mostly accurate list from OSM road information, but there would still be many errors. This link might help, but it might be inaccurate:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_ … g/Maxspeed

You could try asking the Ministry of Transport for a list of roads that are exceptions to the normal rules.

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#52 2012-11-29 17:10:55

Tzafrir Cohen
Member
Registered: 2012-10-29
Posts: 27

Re: Highway classification

The information you're looking for is: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed

I don't think it was set on any road. Is there a way to get a list of roads in Israel without this attribute set?

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#53 2012-11-29 17:48:40

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 222

Re: Highway classification

Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

Is there a way to get a list of roads in Israel without this attribute set?

Easily!
And this going to be really looooong list!

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#54 2014-05-20 13:58:41

Ynhockey
Member
Registered: 2012-10-01
Posts: 22

Re: Highway classification

Something that has been bothering me for a while: some freeways are classified as trunk (23, part of 2, etc.) because they might have bus stops, tolls or other small problems. This seems like trying to be holier than the pope—from what I can see, there is no problem classifying such roads as freeways in other countries, such as Italy and definitely the Middle East. The MoT classifies them as freeways. Are there any objections to changing these to freeways?

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#55 2014-05-20 14:14:32

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 222

Re: Highway classification

Ynhockey, if I'm not wrong, we do not use signs like bus stops and traffic lights to decide what is a road type. Because we are small country, standard checks doesn't always apply. In most cases color of road signs with road number tells us exact road type.

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#56 2014-05-20 22:43:34

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 513

Re: Highway classification

yrtimiD, you are absolutely right, that "our" definition is not based on bus stops or traffic light.
We are using the road signs and their colors to define the road classification (you can see a overview here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roads_in_I … the_roads)

What is very interesting, that almost nobody knows the difference of these road types or why the signs background color does change on the highway.
But the way we define the road types are very strict following the official definition of the road.
The only problem is, that sometimes you can find different types of signs for the same road because some of the signs are old and not updated yet.

If you see problem in our definition tell us. Lets find out together where and if there is a problem.

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#57 2014-05-20 23:18:02

Ynhockey
Member
Registered: 2012-10-01
Posts: 22

Re: Highway classification

As I said, the first examples that come to mind is Highway 23:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=32.789133,3 … 7,,0,-3.98

The road signs don't seem to actually say 23 anywhere, but all the signs pointing to it are blue.

Last edited by Ynhockey (2014-05-20 23:18:11)

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#58 2016-06-19 19:57:56

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 222

Re: Highway classification

Hi All,
recently (5 months ago smile ) user WillRock41 changed part of Ayalon highway from motorway to trunk (changeset 36488477)

reason was: there are no motorway signs between Moshe Dayan interchange to Heil HaShiryon interchange

Invited him here to discuss.
What do you think?

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#59 2016-06-28 08:48:28

WillRock41
New Member
Registered: 2016-06-28
Posts: 2

Re: Highway classification

yrtimiD wrote:

Hi All,
recently (5 months ago smile ) user WillRock41 changed part of Ayalon highway from motorway to trunk (changeset 36488477)

reason was: there are no motorway signs between Moshe Dayan interchange to Heil HaShiryon interchange

Invited him here to discuss.
What do you think?

I think that roads that are not built to be motorways should not be marked as motorways.
Few weeks ago, I spoke with Ayalon highways and they said that they would upgrade ayalon north between Moshe Dayan interchange to Heil HaShiryon interchange to motorway in the close future

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#60 2016-07-01 13:38:24

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 222

Re: Highway classification

WillRock41 wrote:

I think that roads that are not built to be motorways should not be marked as motorways.

I don't see any difference between south and north parts of Ayalon, and I'm not a civil engineer. The only problem I see is the conflict between our internally agreed definition for main roads and your change. See He:Map Features for details.

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#61 2016-07-04 09:40:06

WillRock41
New Member
Registered: 2016-06-28
Posts: 2

Re: Highway classification

yrtimiD wrote:
WillRock41 wrote:

I think that roads that are not built to be motorways should not be marked as motorways.

I don't see any difference between south and north parts of Ayalon, and I'm not a civil engineer. The only problem I see is the conflict between our internally agreed definition for main roads and your change. See He:Map Features for details.

You can ask Ayalon highways about the differences south and north parts of Ayalon North

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#62 2016-09-05 14:00:59

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 513

Re: Highway classification

"Ayalon highways" is welcome to join the community and explain how the highways are defined correctly and what mistake we did in mapping it. Currently we are very good with the definition in the road schema and most if not all mappers do know how to mark a way.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really interested in a official statement!

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#63 2016-09-27 18:09:52

Ynhockey
Member
Registered: 2012-10-01
Posts: 22

Re: Highway classification

Sorry if this was already discussed, but I just noticed that Highway 5 (in Gush Dan) was remapped as a trunk road (instead of motorway). I was under the impression that we were supposed to use the official classification, where 5 is clearly a motorway. Am I missing something?

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#64 2016-10-13 12:18:27

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 217
Website

Re: Highway classification

EDITED FOR CLARITY (hopefully)

I find the recent reclassification as "trunk" of HWY 5
1661.png1661.png
and parts of WHY 20 North (Ayalon),
6651.png
as if they have red shields, very confusing. All road signs refer to them the same as other blue-shielded roads.

This reclassification is caused by interpretation of the "Maximum Speed limit" and "Description" columns as overriding the "Color" column.

Max-speed and access restrictions road signs are well represented by the corresponding OSM tags. Using speed or highway access road-signs for highway classification leads to such confusion.

###################
I propose that:

  1. Shield color will be the only criteria for roads with shields: "motorway", "trunk", "primary", "secondary", and "tertiary".

  2. The "Maximum Speed limit"  column be removed from the Wiki

  3. The reference to the "highway" road-sign will be removed from the description of a Motorway.

  4. The highway tag of shielded highways will be corrected accordingly.

###################

Last edited by zstadler (2016-10-13 14:18:21)

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#65 2016-10-29 10:53:09

Ynhockey
Member
Registered: 2012-10-01
Posts: 22

Re: Highway classification

That sounds good, but I don't really understand the images: where are they from, and are they authoritative? This looks like Amudanan.co.il which is not official.

The official government maps still classify Highway 5 as a blue highway (freeway).

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#66 2016-10-31 20:45:15

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 217
Website

Re: Highway classification

That's exactly my point. The criteria for setting a road as a "blue highway" are set by the government, not OSM members.

The fact is that the government may assign a blue color to a road without a "Freeway" sign, or even to a road with a reduced speed.

The maps, by the way, were taken from IsraelHiking.osm.org.il. They represent the live status of the OSM tagging.

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#67 2017-02-26 23:30:39

Ynhockey
Member
Registered: 2012-10-01
Posts: 22

Re: Highway classification

Following this discussion, I changed Highway 5 to a motorway, but was surprised to find out that the change was reverted. Unfortunately I am not proficient in finding changes, reverting, etc. It appears that the change was made here, but I don't understand how to know for sure:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset … 17/34.8878

Was the change made here? If so, how can I revert? Should I message the user and alert them of this discussion? How are such procedures generally handled on OSM?

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#68 2017-02-27 06:42:59

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 217
Website

Re: Highway classification

Messaging the user is the first step to resolve such a conflict. The general OSM guidelines are described in the wikis on disputes and vandalism

I prefer to use the "discussion" in the changeset's page. Messages put here are sent as e-mail to the owner of the changeset and all participants. The discussion is also available for OSM if an agreement cannot be reached.

By the way, the tag history of a way can also be seen at http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history. For example: http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/25015702

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#69 2017-02-27 07:45:09

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 217
Website

Re: Highway classification

I have started a discussion with user WillRock41 in a previous changeset 38080259, but he stopped responding.

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#70 2017-03-30 09:05:42

Ynhockey
Member
Registered: 2012-10-01
Posts: 22

Re: Highway classification

It's been a while, no reply so far from WillRock41. What now? Is there an easy way to revert the changeset?

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#71 2017-03-30 15:31:13

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 217
Website

Re: Highway classification

You are right.
I've set all segments west of Kesem interchange to highway=motorway.

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