@Jan Westerhof, de discussie over die vlakken bevindt zich ineens in het volgende topic: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=617117#p617117
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Dear Andy,
As you can read in this thread as in two other threads in the NL sub-frum, Gerrit has gone loose again.
Please take as DWG appropriate actions.
Regards
Martin
Just summarizing in English what happened in https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=617117#p617117 on request of Martin Borsje in that thread,
gerrit_dankelman had (again) created areas representing parcels, and tagged them with address:full = postal code + house number, for instance address:full=7954GC13b.
I told him that I highly doubted it was right to create these areas, and that it can lead to problems when there are more addresses on one parcel, and that the tag is unnecessary as postal code and house number have been mapped already, and this just leads to duplication of information.
Jan Westerhof replied, asking whether it is usual to draw parcels as areas, and also asked whether ‘7954GC13b’ is an accepted or documented format for address:full (to the best of my knowledge, it is not). He suggested to stick to the tagging of addresses that gets imported from BAG as long as no better way has been agreed upon, and suggested to revert these edits.
Hope it’s now documented well enough in this thread. I’m all for reverting the ways marking parcel boundaries.
There’s pages of discussion (Dutch: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=52948)) about mapping parcel boundaries as admin boundaries, then in this topic (Dutch) they re-appeared with weird Dutch-language tags, and then again on page 14 in this thread (Dutch: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=610448#p610448)) they appeared tagged as landuse=residential. Nobody except Gerrit himself was fond of either way of tagging them, or convinced of their importance. Still, they keep appearing in new experiments.
Thanks,
I’ve commented on a couple of problematical (for different reasons) changesets. We’ll see what answer comes back.
Although I’m aware that it’s very tiring to continue repeating yourselves, I’d encourage you to keep commenting on probleatical changesets as they are made, so that they’ll appear at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussions?c=Netherlands#5/52.228/6.130 and keep commenting here, in order to understand the problems with any recent contributions.
There have been recent replies to questions about problematical mapping both to changeset discussion comments and in the forum, so hopefully that conversation will continue.
Best Regards,
Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM’s Data Working Group
Gerrit appears to have a real obsession with getting a line drawn on the map, around parcels. It’s not entirely clear why he wants that, but the wish is consistent and lasting.
- In 2015 he managed to draw lines with the tag boundary=administrative, which renders as a thin black line on the standard map. See the first message on the thread https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=52948 for an example.
Once others mappers noticed he filled the place of Staphorst with these tags, he received explanation that this was ‘tagging for the renderer’, a cardinal sin in OSM land. Eventually, all faulty tags were removed. This caused other mappers a lot of work, discussion, and patience with Mr Dankelman.
-
In January 2016 he started all over with parcel mapping, this time (ab)using barrier=fence to reach the same effect on the map - a thin line.
See https://forum.openstreetmap.org/post.php?tid=53129&qid=571705 .
Any attempt to explain why ‘tagging for the renderer’ is wrong remained fruitless. Once again, he had already mapped many gardens with barrier=fence, which all had to be undone. -
Earlier this month he started mapping parcels with landuse=residential with addr:full=.
See https://forum.openstreetmap.org/post.php?tid=52948&qid=617163 .
This was also turned down by other mappers. -
And now he wants to start again… (see https://forum.openstreetmap.org/post.php?tid=52948&qid=617240)).
This time he discovered a (faulty) use of barrier=wall in Leuven, and he suggests (again) to use this for marking a parcel.
As far as I can see, this is the fourth (!) attempt to abuse tags for marking a parcel, over a period of two years (!).
It has become a true obsession with him. Gerrit just does not get the concept of ‘tagging for the renderer’, or why this is wrong. It has been explained over and over, but without success…
Furthermore, he will start mapping the parcels before discussing it with the community, which is annoying. Plus, it’s not just one or two parcels he will map, but large numbers, causing a lot of work to repair it.
And this parcel thing is just one of the things he is doing wrong.
I personally, am completely fed up with Mr Dankelmans contributions. For the large part, his edits are wrong, not useful and costing us a lot of time. It is database pollution.
Please let this stop.
In this forumpost:
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=617339#p617339
Gerrit is telling us he will quit:
I don’t believe him because he wrote that earlier.
Also he wants us to tell him what he should fix.
I would say: every single addition to the OSM database that bears his name should be removed forever.
Marc,
Unfortunately you are right: Gerrit did not stop editing and is busy again. His message was, as almost everything coming from him, fake.
@Andrew: please block him and ask him to confirm his account deletion.
@Martin Borsje I only messaged him a couple of days ago. Given how long this has been going on for, I think we can wait a little bit longer. Current changes have comments such as “Residentials verwijderd” and “source=advies OSM Community”, so I wouldn’t assume bad faith.
If I go to https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/gerrit_dankelman/ I get a message ‘The user gerrit_dankelman does not exist’.
The account has been deleted - you can see that by looking at a recent edit such as http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43561076 .
To all who this matters in this forum:
Needless to say that all in all this whole chain of events has been very sad. All the efforts Gerrit has done to make the map, in his views, better and completer. All the efforts of other forum members to help him, correct him and try to get him on track.
All the frustration but as well the immense patience many showed towards Gerrit and the hope on a good ending.
This is not the good ending I had hoped for, of course; it would have been much more satisfying if all involved would be satisfied and Gerrit would have taken the advices given.
I thank the DWG, especially Andrew for his involvement and finally Gerrit for his undoubtedly difficult decision to end his activities.
To us: let’s go cautiously through Gerrit’s edits and repair where necessary and keep his valuable additions.
Martin
I agree. I feel sorry it had to come to this, at the same time I’m glad this thing has come to an end and we can now spend our time and energy on more positive matters.
Vermoedelijk is gerrit ook actief geweest onder andere namen.
Ik was voornemens zijn landuse=residential op kavel contouren te verwijderen en daar kwam ik gebruiker user_402366 tegen.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/user_402366
Deze lokatie: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.664203/6.253973
Ik wacht nog even met het verwijderen van de residentials alhier.
Om onderstaand plaatje beter te kunnen lezen: ► Rechtermuisknop ► afbeelding openen in nieuw tabblad
In ieder geval bestaat die nu niet meer: “The user user_402366 does not exist”
“Edited 4 months ago by deleted”
Zou goed dezelfde kunnen zijn.
Ik heb de landuse gemerged
Het lijkt erop dat dit account het normale account van gerrit was.
Vinden jullie het goed dat ik al deze landuse=residential welke een kavel/perceel aanduiden, verwijder uit OSM?
Voor deze plek heb ik het net gedaan…
Dat is dezelfde account. 402366 was gerrits user ID. zie: http://www.hdyc.neis-one.org/?gerrit_dankelman
edit: Note to self: voortaan eerst kijken of er geen pagina 20 is voordat je een bericht onderaan pagina 19 achterlaat.
Ik heb afgelopen week het een en ander hersteld ruwweg tussen Staphorst, Rouveen, IJhorst en in het Reestdal. Je komt de gekste dingen tegen. Area=yes, highway=cycleway. Er wordt dus een heel gebied als fietspad gemapt. Nou ja, ik hoef verder geen voorbeelden te geven. Het item op het forum staat er vol mee. Zo hier en daar landuse=forest vervangen in natural=tree_row. Vind ik een mooie oplossing voor een rijtje bomen langs de weg. Ik wil het hele gebied nog een keer nalopen om de puntjes op de i te zetten. Al die slootje die als area=yes en waterway=ditch gemapt waren, heb ik weggehaald. Nog niet overal vervangen door waterway=ditch. Ik vraag me af of het wel nodig is om al die greppels te mappen. Ik heb vergelijkbare natte gebieden in Noord Holland en Friesland bekeken. Daar is ook niet ieder slootje getekend. Overlappende gebieden zoveel mogelijk gerepareerd. Het zal nog niet 100% in orde zijn. Misschien kan iemand er een blik op werpen.
René.