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#426 2016-08-22 10:12:11

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-22

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-21 23:49:02+02

24 Missings und zwei kritische Multipolygone.
   
Gruss
walter

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#427 2016-08-23 20:50:57

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die "aktuelle" Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-23

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-22 18:50:02+02

17 Missings und kein kritisches Multipolygon.
   
Gruss
walter

sorry, hatte heute früh leichte Probleme mit dem Server und danach hat der wieder ewig gebraucht.

Last edited by wambacher (2016-08-23 20:54:23)

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#428 2016-08-24 18:38:31

wambacher
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From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-24

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-23 17:12:02+02

25 Missings und drei kritische Multipolygone.

Bei uns hat es die Umgebung von Offenbach erwischt. (*)
   
Gruss
walter

*) Spruch aus Frankfurt: Willst'e Ärger oder Krach - sach du kimmst aus Offebach. wink

Last edited by wambacher (2016-08-24 18:40:35)

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#429 2016-08-25 12:33:40

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-25

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-24 18:30:02+02

19 Missings und kein kritisches Multipolygon.
   
Gruss
walter

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#430 2016-08-26 10:48:12

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-26

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-25 20:50:01+02

16 Missings und drei kritische Multipolygone.
   
Gruss
walter

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#431 2016-08-26 13:16:22

streckenkundler
Member
From: Lübben (Spreewald)
Registered: 2012-08-09
Posts: 3,503
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

In Polen wird mal wieder an Physiogeographischen Regionen geschraubt...

Mal sehen, ob da wieder Grenzen kaputt gehen...

Folgende Changesets sind in meinem Suchraster gelandet:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41712929
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41712633
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41712480
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41711988
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41710569
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41710481
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41711688

vorwarnende Grüße,

Sven

Edit: eines noch vergessen...

Last edited by streckenkundler (2016-08-26 13:17:38)

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#432 2016-08-26 14:50:20

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

danke für die Warnung.

Gruss
walter

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#433 2016-08-26 23:53:22

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,170

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

As you may be aware, the Data Working Group has been asked to look at the status of various borders around Morocco (both with Spain and that status of the territory both west and east of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Wall (because names for a number of features here are disputed, I'm referring to them via en.wikipedia names).

A large number of people were consulted by changeset discussion comments (everyone who had edited country boundaries in the area at the time) , and in the International Boundaries forum http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopi … 64#p602864 . We've had lots of feedback, via changeset discussion comments, private OSM messages, emails and posts in this forum.  Some replies have requested anonymity, and therefore we won't go into detail (beyond what is already public) into exactly who has commented and what they said.


There were essentially two questions:

1) The status of the Morocco / Spain Border in the north

2) The state of the area covered by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara in the south.


Taking (1) first, all those who replied on this part agreed that Ceuta and Melilla and the other Spanish claimed territories should be mostly considered part of Spain.  The exception is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perejil_Island , which is currently occupied by neither side.  Therefore the DWG recommendation is that the following which are already parts of Spain are added as "inners" to the Morocco relation:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1154756 (Ceuta)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1154757 (Melilla)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/402174412 (Islas Chafarinas)

The constituent parts of http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5921806 (Plazas de Soberanía) apart from http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8692572 (Perejil_Island).  The name of way 8692572 will be changed to include the Spanish name as well as the other three names it currently contains.


The situation with (2) is more complicated and there was more variety in the replies received.  However, there was a clear majority in favour of recognising something either as "Western Sahara" or as "Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic" as a country (admin_level=2).  Whether that something was the whole of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara as recognised by the UN (with the area east of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Wall as a constituent, disputed, admin_level=3) or just the part to the east of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Wall wasn't agreed, but the majority (just) were probably in favour of keeping the part west of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Wall as part of Morocco (which does control the territory) and the part east as a "Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic" (which is what http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5441968 in OSM was previously).

This means changing http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5441968 to be admin_level=2, and changing the names so that name=name:ar, and also adding name:es and name:en at least (names from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahrawi_A … c_Republic ).

It also means changing http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3630439 so that the southern and eastern boundary does not include territory in http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5441968 .  This isn't quite as straightforward as it sounds - zoom in on http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5441968 and you'll see the problems - not least, disagreements with the current border of Mauritania.

A number of other relations are potentially affected by this change, but we don't propose to change them (yet), in order to minimise the changes needed at this time.  We also understand that we'll need to communicate to all of the participants involved before the changes are made (those contacted via changeset discussions at the start of the process) what the DWG's decision is.  We will also state there that if necessary we will enforce the decision in order to prevent edits representing one "side" or another that goes against the results of the consultation.

With regards to how and when to actually make the changes, the DWG would be grateful for any volunteers from this forum (who edit boundaries on a regular basis) who can assist.  Please send an email to data@osmfoundation.org and we will co-ordinate the editing that needs doing.

Best Regards,

Andy Townsend (SomeoneElse) on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group.

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#434 2016-08-27 00:51:35

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

SomeoneElse wrote:

With regards to how and when to actually make the changes, the DWG would be grateful for any volunteers from this forum (who edit boundaries on a regular basis) who can assist.  Please send an email to data@osmfoundation.org and we will co-ordinate the editing that needs doing.

Great news, Andy

i'll send you my mail but unfortunately i'll be offline until Saturday late evening.

regards
walter

Last edited by wambacher (2016-08-27 01:06:53)

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#435 2016-08-27 00:56:57

wambacher
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From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Hi, bin morgen den ganzen Tag "out of office". Ob ich dann abends die Missing Boundaries noch hinbekomme ist ein wenig unsicher.

Gruss
walter

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#436 2016-08-27 20:24:53

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin, spät aber dennoch;

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-27

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-26 22:50:02+02

25 Missings und 9 kritische Multipolygone.

Ob die Missings in Marokko und Algerien mit der Aktion für Marokko zu tun haben, weiss ich noch  nicht. Algerien sollte damit eigentlich nix zu tun haben.
   
Gruss
walter

Last edited by wambacher (2016-08-27 20:27:31)

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#437 2016-08-27 20:39:30

streckenkundler
Member
From: Lübben (Spreewald)
Registered: 2012-08-09
Posts: 3,503
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

wambacher wrote:

danke für die Warnung.

Gruss
walter

Scheint alles gut gegangen zu sein... Ich sah gestern nur, daß die Grenze DE-PL vermutlicherweise mit involviert war, daher die Warnung.

Gruß,

Sven

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#438 2016-08-27 20:54:56

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

streckenkundler wrote:

Scheint alles gut gegangen zu sein... Ich sah gestern nur, daß die Grenze DE-PL vermutlicherweise mit involviert war, daher die Warnung.

Was sind das eigentlich für komische Dinger?

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#439 2016-08-27 21:10:11

streckenkundler
Member
From: Lübben (Spreewald)
Registered: 2012-08-09
Posts: 3,503
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Grob gesagt, Grenzen die die Landschaft beschreiben... Wo ist ein Urstromtal, Sander, Endmoräne...

Also eine naturräumliche Gliederung: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturraum

Sven

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#440 2016-08-28 09:48:51

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-28

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-27 22:36:02+02

49 Missings und ein kritisches Multipolygon.
   
Gruss
walter

PS: Ich habe den Mapper in Algerien (DZA) angesprochen. Ist ein alter Hase, schafft mit Josm und macht dann solchen Sch... sad
Bitte erstmal DZA so lassen, damit er ggf. sich darum kümmern kann. Ansonsten fixe ich das heute Abend.

Last edited by wambacher (2016-08-28 09:52:05)

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#441 2016-08-29 08:31:38

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-29

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-28 22:10:02+02

19 Missings und ein kritisches Multipolygon.
   
Gruss
walter

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#442 2016-08-30 11:19:28

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-30

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-29 22:28:02+02

13 Missings und kein kritisches Multipolygon.
   
Gruss
walter

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#443 2016-08-31 01:24:02

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Hi,

ab Donnerstag Nachmittag/Abend werde ich mit der Rückendeckung der DWG (konkret Andy/SomeoneElse) die Änderungen in Marokko durchziehen. Zuerst die Exklaven am Mittelmeer und in den nächsten Tagen den Rest.

Wer mir dabei unterstützen möchte, mag sich bitte melden. Technisch ist das kein großes Problem für mich, da die Lösung klar vorgegeben ist. Aber moralischen Support könnte ich doch ein wenig gebrauchen.

@4rch: Wäre nett, wenn du dich mal wieder melden würdest, da deine Expertise immer äußerst hilfreich war. Ich glaube nicht, dass sich unser "Gegner" jetzt nochmals einen Edit-War leisten kann.

Gruss
walter

EDIT: Termin leicht vorverlegt.

Last edited by wambacher (2016-09-01 14:59:21)

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#444 2016-08-31 08:08:04

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-08-31

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-30 22:46:02+02

23 Missings und 4 kritische Multipolygone.
   
Gruss
walter

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#445 2016-08-31 18:55:00

EzekielT
Member
Registered: 2016-08-05
Posts: 18

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

"The situation with (2) is more complicated and there was more variety in the replies received.  However, there was a clear majority in favour of recognising something either as "Western Sahara" or as "Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic" as a country (admin_level=2).".

So South Ossetia and Abkhazia should be returned to admin_level=2, and Transnistria should be admin_level=2? Also, Somaliland admin_level=2?

And, also with the EU problem:

(1-10 importance).

(10) Convert the member relations of the EU (relation) into ways, because the border currently isn't visible on Mapnik,

(9) Add label and admin_level=1 (see wiki),

(6) Add all official languages to the name tag (name=*).

(5) Update population.

(3) Fix spelling errors.

(9) Delete "fixme".

(4) Fix grammar errors.

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#446 2016-08-31 18:57:12

EzekielT
Member
Registered: 2016-08-05
Posts: 18

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

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#447 2016-09-01 09:33:58

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Moin,

hier die aktuelle Missing Boundaries-Auswertung: https://osm.wno-edv-service.de/index.ph … 2016-09-01

Der Datenstand ist vom 2016-08-31 23:55:03+02

17 Missings und kein kritisches Multipolygon.
   
Gruss
walter

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#448 2016-09-01 16:00:47

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

SomeoneElse wrote:

Taking (1) first, all those who replied on this part agreed that Ceuta and Melilla and the other Spanish claimed territories should be mostly considered part of Spain.  The exception is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perejil_Island , which is currently occupied by neither side.  Therefore the DWG recommendation is that the following which are already parts of Spain are added as "inners" to the Morocco relation:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1154756 (Ceuta)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1154757 (Melilla)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/402174412 (Islas Chafarinas)

The constituent parts of http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5921806 (Plazas de Soberanía) apart from http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8692572 (Perejil_Island).  The name of way 8692572 will be changed to include the Spanish name as well as the other three names it currently contains

Just did it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41850184  for Ceuta, Mililla and Islas Chafarinas and http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41850624  for Plazas de Someriana.
Hope, i did everything well. Next steps Friday afternoon - if not something special happened

One question: i know only about three local names for Perejii Island: the arabic, berber and spanish names. What should be the 4th one?

Regards
walter

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hab eben die ersten Schritte gemacht. Morgen geht es weiter, falls nichts Besonderes (Revert?) passiert. Ansonsten wird das "lustig". wink

Gruss
walter

ps: wenn jemand technische Einwände hat, bitte ruhig melden. Ich bin auch nicht vollkommen.

Last edited by wambacher (2016-09-01 16:03:31)

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#449 2016-09-01 18:09:13

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,170

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

Thanks Walter!

The idea with "Perejil Island" was that it would be part of both Spain and Morocco (currently it's implicitly part of Morocco because it's within their maritime boundary, but not as far as I can see part of Spain).  It seems pretty well served for names - that bit looks OK to me.  My sentence "The name of way 8692572 will be changed to include the Spanish name as well as the other three names it currently contains." was clearly confused - it has Arabic, Berber and Spanish versions in the "name" tag, so that should be plenty (I'm not personally a fan of multiple names in the "name" tag but do understand that some communities do choose to do that.

Best Regards,
Andy

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#450 2016-09-01 18:39:37

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 16,359
Website

Re: [closed] Internationale Admingrenzen 2016

SomeoneElse wrote:

Thanks Walter!

The idea with "Perejil Island" was that it would be part of both Spain and Morocco (currently it's implicitly part of Morocco because it's within their maritime boundary, but not as far as I can see part of Spain).

Yes, i missed that. has been fixed just now.

It seems pretty well served for names - that bit looks OK to me.  My sentence "The name of way 8692572 will be changed to include the Spanish name as well as the other three names it currently contains." was clearly confused - it has Arabic, Berber and Spanish versions in the "name" tag, so that should be plenty (I'm not personally a fan of multiple names in the "name" tag but do understand that some communities do choose to do that.

yes, i'm not happy about this "multi name" too, but what would be better?

Tomorrow at noon i should see the results on my Boundaries Map. Especially if the topological structure and the tree of the levels are ok.

Regards
walter

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