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#26 2015-07-14 20:35:07

marek kleciak
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Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

highway=stop_line

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#27 2015-07-14 20:35:45

wowik
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From: Zelenograd
Registered: 2009-09-29
Posts: 8,914

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Cтоп линии бывают и там, где нет светофоров. Например у знака STOP, CUSTOM и т.п.
И светофоры бывают без стоп-линий, там где не надо останавливаться на красный свет - у дублирующих светофоров на выезде с перекрестка.

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#28 2015-07-14 21:02:52

edward17
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Registered: 2013-08-26
Posts: 1,849
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Re: area:highway and use in Russia

ad47 wrote:

Highway=stop_line looks like the best tag for stop lines anyway.

Excuse me, are you speaking about highway=stop_line on nodes or on lines? If second:

Do you think it will not cause a problem when a user want get all routable highway=* in any area? For example, through the Overpass. In this fall ways with highway=stop_line tag come also in query, and user must filter them.


Все жители частного сектора, вешающие таблички с названием улицы и номером дома, попадают в рай без очереди.

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#29 2015-07-14 21:19:55

Sergey Astakhov
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From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Registered: 2009-11-13
Posts: 5,714

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Зачем опять в highway пихать? Есть же road_marking, его и использовать, если так уж хочется разметку наносить.

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#30 2015-07-14 22:07:41

ad47
Member
Registered: 2012-10-14
Posts: 225

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

edward17 wrote:

Excuse me, are you speaking about highway=stop_line on nodes or on lines?

It is a very important remark, despite many different keys for highway nodes (crossing, traffic_lights, etc.), linear highways should be considered as a routing lines. Linear stop lines is unambiguous part of the road marking.

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#31 2015-07-15 06:16:24

marek kleciak
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Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

1. Cтоп линии бывают и там, где нет светофоров. Например у знака STOP, CUSTOM и т.п.
И светофоры бывают 2. без стоп-линий, там где не надо останавливаться на красный свет - у дублирующих светофоров на выезде с перекрестка.

Exactly.
For case 1. use: highway=stop_line + stop_line=traffic_signals
For case 2. only: highway=stop_line

Stop Line should is a tagging of a node.

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#32 2015-07-15 06:58:02

dkiselev
Member
Registered: 2010-02-09
Posts: 3,364

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

My vote for
road_marking=stop_line
stop_line=*

We already have enough highway=something_that_is_not_a_highway features.

And while you mark points with highway=stop_line it's a small problem, but if it's combined with polygonal highways and you mark a line with these tags, it will interfere with highways.

Last edited by dkiselev (2015-07-15 06:59:17)


mail: dkiselev@osm.me      skype: dmitry.v.kiselev
Open Street Maps are supreme! Exterminate all map forms! Exterminate! Exterminate!

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#33 2015-07-15 07:10:40

dkiselev
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Registered: 2010-02-09
Posts: 3,364

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

3e1348847fe724c59b873acffb22bd1b.png
This work is under CC0

Last edited by dkiselev (2015-07-15 11:05:05)


mail: dkiselev@osm.me      skype: dmitry.v.kiselev
Open Street Maps are supreme! Exterminate all map forms! Exterminate! Exterminate!

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#34 2015-07-15 09:03:18

guanchzhou
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From: St Petersburg, Russia
Registered: 2012-04-23
Posts: 263
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Re: area:highway and use in Russia

В свое время порисовал в округе area:*, да, похоже, GaM все поудалял sad

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#35 2015-07-15 10:15:16

marek kleciak
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

dkiselev wrote:

My vote for
road_marking=stop_line
stop_line=*

Sounds good for me. Please feel free to put this suggestion in the proposal page, including your sketch. Is it ok for you?

Best regards,
Marek

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#36 2015-07-15 10:56:26

Hind
Member
From: Moscow
Registered: 2009-05-25
Posts: 3,950

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

guanchzhou wrote:

В свое время порисовал в округе area:*, да, похоже, GaM все поудалял sad

Но ведь это повод для обращения в DWG.

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#37 2015-07-15 11:03:37

KonTur
Member
From: SPB
Registered: 2010-03-10
Posts: 1,581

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Hind wrote:
guanchzhou wrote:

В свое время порисовал в округе area:*, да, похоже, GaM все поудалял sad

Но ведь это повод для обращения в DWG.

GaM давал поводы для обращение в DWG уже столько раз... только все почему-то стесняются писать туда.

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#38 2015-07-15 11:04:10

dkiselev
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Registered: 2010-02-09
Posts: 3,364

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Marek yep.


mail: dkiselev@osm.me      skype: dmitry.v.kiselev
Open Street Maps are supreme! Exterminate all map forms! Exterminate! Exterminate!

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#39 2015-07-15 11:08:35

marek kleciak
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

dkiselev
I found some bugs, please compare the latest english version.
See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File … Legend.jpg
and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File … dified.jpg

Also some changes in the description.

Last edited by marek kleciak (2015-07-15 12:14:36)

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#40 2015-07-17 09:26:24

marek kleciak
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

French mappers have also visualization of streets as area:
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/de/map/are … 4/11.58573

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#41 2015-07-17 10:14:53

dkiselev
Member
Registered: 2010-02-09
Posts: 3,364

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

I can't find where they have got polygons, so I made a small sketch in overpass-turbo

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/atv


mail: dkiselev@osm.me      skype: dmitry.v.kiselev
Open Street Maps are supreme! Exterminate all map forms! Exterminate! Exterminate!

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#42 2015-07-17 10:15:24

ad47
Member
Registered: 2012-10-14
Posts: 225

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

In my opinion, we shouldn't use area:highway=yes or crossing, it is equivalent to mark street areas just as surface=paved. When only area:highway=yes was used, you can not distinguish pedestrian and motorist areas or drop minor streets (e.g. residential, service) in render. So I speaking for the area:highway=[highway tag on linear road] only.

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#43 2015-07-17 10:37:22

marek kleciak
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Sounds good for me. Write it in the discussion subpage.

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#44 2015-07-17 20:45:12

marek kleciak
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Mappers from Holland render this tag as well:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Prop … in.29_maps

Your rendering looks in my opinion better.

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#45 2015-07-18 19:35:34

marek kleciak
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Dear friends, I said already, Russia is leading with such mapping.
I realize, some parts of german community see in such mapping only a kind of experiment.
Some people argue, we should define "the best width" for one street cathegory and the problem is solved.

I was supervisor of already 2 diploma thesis in this area: 2006 aond 2013. Both from navigation companies, with other words not free. What I learned is: about 80% of streets works with this approach, ca. 20% not. What are the reasons:
1. Changing of number of lanes e.g. from 2 to 3 is an very idividual distance. It is impossible to find good assuption for every situations.
2. When we have compex crossings this aproach work mostly not.

Please help with more rea:highway mapping of urban centres in Russia. We need examples of wide areas.

Best regards,
Marek

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#46 2015-07-19 09:04:30

kastellano
Member
Registered: 2014-01-15
Posts: 229
Website

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

На всех примерах отсутствует обочина.


Следующее поколение карт ОСМ (в далеком будущем) будет полностью состоять из полигонов, т.к. пустого места (не отмеченного места) быть просто не может. Полигон дороги должен граничить с полигоном поребрика, который граничит с полигоном газона, который в свою очередь граничит с полигоном дома (для загородных дорог - полигон дороги, обочина, кювет (возможно из трех частей - склоны и дно отдельно), трава/газон, поле или лес). Т.е. желательно общие правила для любых полигонов создавать, а не только для дороги. В частности предусмотреть возможность указывать направление склона (например, для насыпей и выемок), для лестниц - направление ступенек и каждую ступеньку отдельно (актуально для лестниц где ступени не прямолинейные).

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#47 2015-07-20 09:29:44

marek kleciak
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 8,421

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Kastellano,
make proposal with ideas how to do it!

With regards,
Marek

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#48 2015-07-21 04:38:48

d1g
Member
From: not using forum
Registered: 2010-01-23
Posts: 2,380
Website

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

marek kleciak wrote:

make proposal with ideas how to do it!

To answer question at proposal page:

Which area:highway values should be used, when several different types of road meet, e.g. crossing of secondary and residential road? should area of residential road be splitted? Or one new mix tagging should be used?

Since we are using completely new approach to roads (area-roads) we shouldn't be limited by old tagging highway=primary/secondary/etc. I suggest to use base tag for road and declare individual properties per transportation mode. E.g.:

highway=yes
area=yes
surface=asphalt // optional surface info

legal_access:pedestrian=yes // optional access tags per mode
practicability:pedestrian=yes
practicability:pedestrian:crossing=yes
practicability:pedestrian:crossing:marking=zebra

legal_access:vehicle=yes // optional access tags per mode
practicability:vehicle=yes
practicability:vehicle:priority=primary

This way we can map road infrastructure without strict requirements for pedestrian or car routing. In other words, road infrastructure can be mapped without knowledge if car/pedestrian/bicycle routing is possible here (highway=road).

Back you your question about secondary and residential: we should tag "crossing area" from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Fil … Legend.jpg like this:

highway=yes
area=yes

practicability:vehicle=yes
practicability:vehicle:priority=secondary;residential

Routers and renders have to look for adjacent neighbours before they render "crossing area"s.

Bigger question is if 5 roads crosses in some area and only 2 of them residential and only 2 of them secondary - there no way for you to tag/render/calculate routing of "crossing area" without using relations or ids-in-tags. You have to use relations or look for adjacent areas and their properties AFAIK.

PS. We can use highway=yes+area=yes or highway:area=yes or area:highway=yes - it doesn't really matter for me which tag(s) we pick.
PS2. It is also requested multiple times within Russian community that we should have explicit way to tag practicability per transport mode
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pro … assability
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hum … ticability
and not legal access tags like
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bicycle
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:4wd_only%3Dyes

Last edited by d1g (2015-07-21 05:23:30)

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#49 2015-07-21 10:20:03

Pavel47
Member
From: St. Petersburg
Registered: 2011-10-29
Posts: 155

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

Marek, will rendering of footway=crossing appear? If we have highway areas, completely filled with colors, it cover existing ways of crossings, and make this ways invisible.

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#50 2015-07-21 10:32:01

Sergey Astakhov
Member
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Registered: 2009-11-13
Posts: 5,714

Re: area:highway and use in Russia

d1g wrote:

Since we are using completely new approach to roads (area-roads) we shouldn't be limited by old tagging highway=primary/secondary/etc

Вы как всегда, в своём репертуаре.
А теперь попробуйте сделать стиль рендеринга для вашей схемы, чтобы он пристойно смотрелся на карте на разных уровнях. Красивый и функциональный рендеринг - это одно из главных предназначений маппинга дорог областями.

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