OpenStreetMap Forum

kbroderick

Member

Registered: 2013-09-06

Posts: 7

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Thanks for that. I think it should be something like this:

(highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved ...

Not sure where the mkgmap: comes from. I think we need a test for the existance of the surface tag and anything that is not sealed, paved, asphalt, concrete, ... needs to be set to unpaved. I think this is important and the 4044 is a very good example why. The Eastern half is a nice two lane highway and in the middle of nowhere it turns into a goat track. The road number tag was obviously copied from either an online map or the "official" Garmin map, as I bet there are no markers once you enter the dirt section.

Now imagine you have planned a trip on this road. 25 km out of Chiang Rai you hit the dirt. A few km further and you wonder how long this will continue. At which point do you give up and go for the 70 km backtrack and detour? Me, probably once I have picked up my bike for the third time out of the mud. I had to stay overnight in a remote village once, because of a similar mistake.

I used to tag all dirt roads as tracks, but that inevitably gets changed by people who know better. "Don't tag for the renderer."

Can we incorporate this into the "new style", please?

At least here in Vermont, our unpaved roads vary from good, well-maintained gravel (on which a race-replica sportbike is a completely reasonable ride) to old right-of-ways that have not been maintained for vehicular travel in decades. I've been tagging unpaved "roads" that I wouldn't want to drive in a normal-clearance, two-wheel-drive sedan as highway=track and using the smoothness tag to distinguish between "a little rugged"—the type of roads where the locals will drive two-wheel drive sedans, albeit with the occasional scrape of an oil pan on a rock—and places that present an interesting challenge on a dual-sport motorcycle (or from those that might challenge a good rider on a dirt bike).

So my two cents is that it's important to have a distinction between "unpaved road" and "track". It's not an easy problem to solve, particularly since the areas with the most questionable roads also tend to have low population densities and the most questionable data (to the point where I've learned that a "major road" showing up on a Garmin CNNA map, unless it's a state highway, usually means "road indicated in Navteq data without further information" and probably translates to "woods road that may or may not be passable," while a minor road may well be a well-maintained gravel road), but I think it's one worth doing our best to solve.

And yes, all of the above can change with weather—there are plenty of roads in this state that are passable by passenger car for all but two or three weeks of the year, and for those few weeks, you may or may not get through even with AWD and reasonably high ground clearance. I still think that it's important for the data to reflect the overall picture, not necessarily the "mud season" situation.

gecho111

Member

Registered: 2014-01-30

Posts: 13

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

I've been experimenting with the new style the past few days and noticed that while the default style displays the names associated with polygons like parks and building, the new style does not.  Could someone tell me how to enable that in the style file?  I've tried quite a few things without any luck, including starting over with a copy of the style without any of my modifications.  I was going to try to see if a map generated online works correctly, but there is a 2 day wait in the queue.

Aside from that, tweaks I've made to the style for personal use on my small cycling Garmin unit:
- changed the building polygon type to 0x3600 for better contrast
- changed the path type color to red using TYPWiz
- increased the height of the "unpaved" type 0x10002 from 7 to 11 so it is more visible when applied to unclassified roads

ligfietser

Member

Registered: 2008-10-09

Posts: 5,353

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

The appearance of labels are controlled in the TYP file. For some polygon types I have set them to invisible.
With the typwiz or typviewer editor you have to edit the TYP file and set the labels to default, no label (invisible), small or large font.
In the style files you can check which OSM key/value is rendered with which Garmin type:
https://code.google.com/p/mkgmap-style- … es%2Fworld

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http://www.openfietsmap.nl

gecho111

Member

Registered: 2014-01-30

Posts: 13

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Excellent, thanks.  I can see how in a well mapped area the labels could quickly become overwhelming.

Basstoelpel

Member

Registered: 2008-11-02

Posts: 1,083

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Maybe the handling of the downloads can be improved. I wanted to get the Moscow area but I don't wait the scheduled 2.4 days. So I went for complete Russia. Now it would be a good idea to cancel the first request. (Maybe showing the estimated time in advance would reduce custom area requests a lot...)

At the moment, osm_generic_gmapsupp.zip for complete russia seems to be broken. It is only 174 bytes large. I don't see any method to force a recalculation.

Any way to get an auto-email when a country file is recalculated with new data?

Baßtölpel

ligfietser

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Registered: 2008-10-09

Posts: 5,353

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

I have limited knowledge on the map generation process (maybe Lambertus can comment on this after his holidays) but you can do a few things. For a small area like Moscow you can download the img tiles directly (click on the files that you see in the left panel) and compile a map with Javawa's OSM Combiner.

I see not only the gmapsupp.img is broken for Russia, but also the Mapsource installer (probably many things went wrong during the latest map generation). You can also use OSM Combiner to install it on your pc and/or create a gmapsupp.img for the GPS with the osm_generic_new_tiles.zip file.

You can download the OSM Combiner files here, http://osm.pleiades.uni-wuppertal.de/op … _Combiner/ since this tool is not longer maintained by Javawa. If someone is willing to develop this tool further, the sources are available.

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http://www.openfietsmap.nl

Bibo

Member

Registered: 2014-08-09

Posts: 1

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

At present there is a problem with "Istambul tile", both selecting it during a custom map generation or downloading Turkey ready map as whole.
If you select the Istambul containing tile and generate a custom map you obtain a map containing the "Friburg" tile

Massimiliano "Bibo" Segreto

Lambertus

Inactive

From: Apeldoorn (NL)

Registered: 2007-03-17

Posts: 3,269

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

At present there is a problem with "Istambul tile", both selecting it during a custom map generation or downloading Turkey ready map as whole.
If you select the Istambul containing tile and generate a custom map you obtain a map containing the "Friburg" tile

Massimiliano "Bibo" Segreto

This is a known problem and discussed there, but offtopic here.

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Mapping tools: Garmin GPSmap 60CSx, Giant Terrago 2002

FFes

Member

From: Den Haag, NL

Registered: 2009-07-26

Posts: 11

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

I'm seeing a small problem. In the Zuiderpark, Den Haag there is an athletics track. It is properly mapped as "leisure=track". But because of the "track" the outline of the track shows in BaseCamp as a "path".

In the Zuiderpark:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.0 … 72/4.28783

The other athletics track in Den Haag, same problem (of course):
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.0 … 49/4.24358

Wiki about leisure=track:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dtrack

ligfietser

Member

Registered: 2008-10-09

Posts: 5,353

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

The problem is should it be tagged as a way (the track itself) or the whole sports area (where the track(s) is/are located).
In the wiki this is unclear. If you look in the right tabel it recommends not to use it on the area:

Used on these elements:
should not be used on nodes
may be used on ways
should not be used on areas
may be used on relations

So therefore the mapping on OSM is wrong, one should map the actual race track with leisure=track (which is represented as path in Basecamp) and not on the whole sports area.

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http://www.openfietsmap.nl

FFes

Member

From: Den Haag, NL

Registered: 2009-07-26

Posts: 11

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

I'm seeing a small problem. In the Zuiderpark, Den Haag there is an athletics track. It is properly mapped as "leisure=track". But because of the "track" the outline of the track shows in BaseCamp as a "path".

Reading the wiki again, I am not sure how to solve this. All situations are different.

The "Areas?" paragraph states that the handling of areas is a bit unclear at the moment.

In Rijswijk there is a cycling track. That is definitely not properly mapped (highway=cycleway). But when it would be mapped with "leisure=track" (as it should be, I think) you want the track to show as a real path. But athletics track are commonly mapped as areas.

And leisure=track is also used for horse racing. Duindigt is also mapped as an area. But maybe other horse racing tracks are mapped different.

Cycling track in Rijswijk:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.0 … 69/4.33443

Duindigt:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.1 … 074/4.3446

ligfietser

Member

Registered: 2008-10-09

Posts: 5,353

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

I think the lack of a clear guideline results in that every renderer and mapper interprets it on a different way...

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http://www.openfietsmap.nl

neha_39

Member

Registered: 2014-09-15

Posts: 4

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Incorrect runabout exit indication

I use a Nüvi 55 with primarily maps from Denmark. I have the latest revision of the Denmark map… 09-09-2014

There is an error:
For example, my journey takes me though a roundabout. It is a straight forward roundabout with 4 exists, 3 o’clock , 6 o’clock , 9 o’clock 12 o’clock , where I am entering the roundabout at 6 o’clock and should exit the it at 9 o’clock to reach my destination.

The voice prompt navigates me though the roundabout correctly… “take exit number three, bla bla bla”…

The small icon to the top left of the navigational window on my Garmin, indicating the specific roundabout with the exit to take, incorrectly indicates that I should exit the roundabout at 6 o’clock.

I find this to be the matter with all roundabouts… the icon to the top left on the navigational window displaying an exit later that the actual exit that I need to take.

Last edited by neha_39 (2014-09-15 11:17:14)

Beddhist

Member

From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH

Registered: 2009-07-28

Posts: 439

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Welcome to the forum.

First, do you have any other maps loaded and possibly enabled, covering the same area?

What maps was your unit sold with?

This problem occurs very occasionally on my Zumo (I suspect it's a firmware bug), but if this is consistent then it warrants further investigation.

Regards,
Peter.

Last edited by Beddhist (2014-09-15 11:31:14)

neha_39

Member

Registered: 2014-09-15

Posts: 4

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Hey Peter

Thank you for the welcome. I have disabled all other maps on my device… for example “city navigator europe nt lifetime” that came with the GPS.

(I have tried the downloadable *.img file that I copied directly onto my device and *.exe file for installing the map to BaseCamp, where I then uploaded the map to my device via BaseCamp. The result is the same)

Regards,
Johan

P.S. I'm worried that it actually might be a firmware bug... just like you mentioned.

Last edited by neha_39 (2014-09-15 11:40:18)

Beddhist

Member

From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH

Registered: 2009-07-28

Posts: 439

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Can you try another GPS map, not produced from OSM? I have a suspicion...

neha_39

Member

Registered: 2014-09-15

Posts: 4

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

I have already tried it with the Garmin map that followed with the device and there is no problem with it.

Beddhist

Member

From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH

Registered: 2009-07-28

Posts: 439

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Yes, I expect that it will work correctly with all of Garmin's maps. But can you try a different kind of map? You can try our own NZOGPS map and put your unit into demo mode (i.e. turn off the receiver). You can position your pointer somewhere in NZ and route to another location on the map.

What I suspect is that your GPS can't handle roundabouts in maps other than Garmin's.

OSM maps are produced by a compiler called mkgmap. By trying another kind of map I want to eliminate this, as other free maps are generally produced with cgpsmapper. The output should be pretty much the same, but this is just what we are trying to prove.

neha_39

Member

Registered: 2014-09-15

Posts: 4

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Ok, I managed to download the NZ map… but first I had to register.

I selected two waypoints in Christchurch…
S43.55101° E172.54557°
and
S43.55205° E172.54589°
(there is a roundabout between the two points)

I did a simulation of the route and no problem whatsoever. Both the voice prompt and the icon indicating the exit in the roundabout (top left of navigation screen) is correct.

Beddhist

Member

From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH

Registered: 2009-07-28

Posts: 439

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Right, well done!

On the face of it your Nuvi seems to have a problem with roundabouts compiled with mkgmap, but cgpsmapper created maps and Garmin's own (naturally) are ok. 1 attempt is not proof, of course, but I think there is a lead that can be followed - but not here. This forum is for tweaking the appearance/functionality of the maps produced by Lambertus.

May I suggest you take your findings to the mkgmap mailing list?

Kind regards,
Peter.

erdos

Member

Registered: 2014-10-01

Posts: 7

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

hi,

I'm new to OSM for Garmin.

I downloaded the new style routeable maps for my local area (Washington DC) and use it both on Garmin Montana 600 and GarminXT on a Nokia E71 symbian phone.

Problems I've discovered with New Style routable maps:
on my Garmin Montana, the maps features such as parks, school fields appear as dark patch on the map in night mode, this makes these area features less visible at night.  also the OSM maps seems in conflict with some other Garmin format maps such as MyTrails.  with MyTrails enabled, OSM map is not visible in some areas.

On GarminXT with Nokia E71 symbian phone, some of the fonts for rivers, bays displayed as double typefaced fonts, this makes the names for these map features hard to read.

ligfietser

Member

Registered: 2008-10-09

Posts: 5,353

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

Hi, welcome on this forum.
Less important features that appear less visible is imho intended on night mode to make it less distracting.
If you like to change that, there are two options
- turn on the daylight mode
- Customize the map colours with a typ file editor. You can give every map item the colour that you like.

I dont know if Garmin XT supports a typ file, if it does you can optimize the map for your Nokia as well.

also the OSM maps seems in conflict with some other Garmin format maps such as MyTrails.  with MyTrails enabled, OSM map is not visible in some areas.

Yes, a general rule of thumb with all garmins is do not enable multiple maps, because it will indeed cause conflicts.

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http://www.openfietsmap.nl

Skippern

Member

From: Guarapari, ES, Brazil

Registered: 2009-02-07

Posts: 89

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

I generally downloads the Brazilian maps from garmin.osm.nl and have encountered two problems:

1) In the Generic Routable style  the tile named BR Vila Velha seems corrupt, it gives only a white tile without no roads, no rivers, no ocean

2) In the Generic Routable (new style) it seems like the maxspeed tag is ignored, missed, omitted. I get generic speeds for highway types instead of the speeds I am expecting, I have exessively used the map in Simulator mode in order to detect possible errors and to test the map usability for my needs, and until now never seen the simulation use speed limits I know have been tagged for years. The generic speed limits from highway types does not fit with on-the-ground reality in Brazil, resulting in Arrival Time calculations always being wrong. - Biggest problem is motorway resulting in speeds of 240 km/h, highest speed limit I have observed in Brazil is 110 though suspect there might be roads with 120.

ligfietser

Member

Registered: 2008-10-09

Posts: 5,353

Website

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

@Skippern,
1) There seems nothing wrong with that tile. Do you have the latest version? Did you zoom in enough? Maybe crtl-G 2x (clear cache) helps in Mapsource or Basecamp.
2) Do you see this recently? Is the generic (old) style ok?

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http://www.openfietsmap.nl

Skippern

Member

From: Guarapari, ES, Brazil

Registered: 2009-02-07

Posts: 89

Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: Missing/incorrect feature requests

@Skippern,
1) There seems nothing wrong with that tile. Do you have the latest version? Did you zoom in enough? Maybe crtl-G 2x (clear cache) helps in Mapsource or Basecamp.
2) Do you see this recently? Is the generic (old) style ok?

1) I gave up on that style about a year ago. Checked all zooms and routing. It broke routing, and zooming all the way out would give me coastline if I remember correctly, but closer zoom gave me only clear land, even at sea
2) Currently testing with new style version 01-10-2014, do not have bandwidth to update until beginning of December, for same reason have not tried with any other styles.