You are not logged in.

#576 2013-10-24 21:37:29

sebastic
Member
Registered: 2012-05-14
Posts: 220

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

De kaart van Noordsfiets queried overpass-api.de direct, de andere krijgt 504 Gateway Timeouts op de requests via de proxy op mijndev.openstreetmap.nl.

Mogelijk is de timeout te kort op de proxy, of kan de proxy overpass-api.de niet bereiken.

Offline

#577 2013-10-24 21:52:36

ligfietser
Moderator
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,152
Website

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Ik heb die proxy nu op false gezet (was true) en nu doet ie het weer (maar misschien niet in IE 9/8? IE 10 doet het wel).
Geen idee wat er op mijndev.openstreetmap.nl aan de hand is.

Last edited by ligfietser (2013-10-24 22:11:23)

Offline

#578 2013-10-25 16:30:11

PeeWee32
Member
From: Leusden, NL
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 1,116
Website

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

OK. Bedankt. Ziet er nu inderdaad weer goed uit. Ik gebruik em nogal eens om een link op osm.org opmerkingen te zetten zodat duidelijk is wat er fout is. Werkt erg goed.

Offline

#579 2013-10-27 21:47:54

ligfietser
Moderator
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,152
Website

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Inmiddels heeft Stefan wat gefixed zodat de timeouts verholpen zijn (OFM BNL map was ook niet meer bereikbaar).

Offline

#580 2014-05-29 12:13:39

Allroads
Member
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 2,823

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Jammer is het dat als je van het ene tagveld (cyclwaytags) naar het andere gaat (routetags)en je gaat weer terug, dat hij de instelling van vorig gebruik niet onthoud.
Dit switchen

Had gehoopt op een kerstcadeautje, maar ja de noordelijke kerstman had geen tijd.

Offline

#581 2014-05-29 15:39:39

noordfiets
Member
From: Groningen stad
Registered: 2010-02-14
Posts: 827

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Allroads wrote:

Jammer is het dat als je van het ene tagveld (cyclwaytags) naar het andere gaat (routetags)en je gaat weer terug, dat hij de instelling van vorig gebruik niet onthoud.
Dit switchen

Had gehoopt op een kerstcadeautje, maar ja de noordelijke kerstman had geen tijd.

Da maar tot eind december wachten en zien of het dit jaar wel lukt ...
Ik probeer het te onthouden voor een regenachtige zondagmiddag of zo.

Offline

#582 2014-06-02 12:25:17

noordfiets
Member
From: Groningen stad
Registered: 2010-02-14
Posts: 827

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Allroads wrote:

Jammer is het dat als je van het ene tagveld (cyclwaytags) naar het andere gaat (routetags)en je gaat weer terug, dat hij de instelling van vorig gebruik niet onthoud.
Dit switchen

Had gehoopt op een kerstcadeautje, maar ja de noordelijke kerstman had geen tijd.

Op mijn kaart werkt het inmiddel: http://server.mijneigen.net/fiets/tags

Ligfietser: idee om over te nemen, zo gemaakt dat het jouw wijzigingen niet in de weg zit?

Offline

#583 2014-06-03 08:38:20

ligfietser
Moderator
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,152
Website

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Bedankt Noordfiets, zit nu in de BTM!

Offline

#584 2014-06-03 10:19:57

Allroads
Member
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 2,823

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Mooi, nu nog een regenachtige week hier.

#572 #573 voor als het nog eens regent.

Offline

#585 2014-06-30 12:54:21

Hubert87
Member
Registered: 2014-03-07
Posts: 339

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Hallo,

in advance, I just followed the link from the wiki-page for "Bicycle Tags Map" and am not sure if I'm in the right place. Also I didn't check if this has been posted already, if so I'm sorry for the double posting.

Now my problem: I have tagged both a cycle lane and a shared_lane with the cycleway:right/left=lane/shared_lane pattern. Now, if I select "cycleway=shared_lane" at the overlay-window, nothing appears. However, it will show up if I select "cycleway=lane". Plus the tag "cycleway=shared_lane" shows up correctly, so do "cycleway=lane" and "cycleway:right/left=lane".
My best guess is, that there is a bug in the code. I hope one of you, can help me with that.

I have created a Permalink to a example in my Hometown. The Road "Vogelsang" has a cycle lane, and east to that "Krämerstraße" has a shared_lane.

Best wishes from Germany
Hubert

Offline

#586 2014-06-30 14:02:40

ligfietser
Moderator
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,152
Website

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Hallo Hubert,
Yes you are at the right spot. Thanks for your report, I have added cycleway:right=shared_lane and cycleway:left=shared_lane. And also fixed the code from cycleway=lane.
See http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~ligfie … FFFFFFFFFF

But aren't you making it extremely complicated with tags there?
You tag the right side as well as the left side of the road with shared_lane, but i.m.h.o. you could do that with one tag: cycleway=shared_lane (means both sides have a shared_lane). If only one side has a shared lane, we (in NLD's) use cycleway:right or cycleway:left. And what does cycleway=both mean? You already specify cycleway:left AND cycleway:right. Better keep it simple, this is very confusing for map makers / routing engines.

Offline

#587 2014-07-01 12:07:32

Hubert87
Member
Registered: 2014-03-07
Posts: 339

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Excelent. Thank You. That was really fast. smile

As to your questions:

ligfietser wrote:

But aren't you making it extremely complicated with tags there?
You tag the right side as well as the left side of the road with shared_lane, but i.m.h.o. you could do that with one tag: cycleway=shared_lane (means both sides have a shared_lane). If only one side has a shared lane, we (in NLD's) use cycleway:right or cycleway:left.

Yes, it's not exactly KISS. However, because the type of cycleway (track/lane/shared_lane/etc.) changes alot in my town, and because they are often different on both sides or only one side has a cycleway, I personally find it easyer to map by just keeping the style consistent and always use right/left. Also I didn't invent this, but got inspired by the Lübecker Methode (in german).

ligfietser wrote:

And what does cycleway=both mean? You already specify cycleway:left AND cycleway:right.

Also Yes; not KISS and not consens, I am aware of it.
I use a two step methode here. First I define on what side a cycleway is present (e.g. right side, left side or both sides). Than I define the type of cycleway (track/lane/etc.) and everything else that is interesting using a prefix "cycleway:right/left:*". And, as you said, because I also "cycleway:left" and "cycleway:right", there is no harm if a renderer/router ignores it.

ligfietser wrote:

Better keep it simple, this is very confusing for map makers / routing engines.

I might be wrong, but I don't agree with that (the "very confusing for map makers / routing engines" part not the "Better keep it simple", that is generally true). If the "right"/"left" tags are used by a renderer or a router even once, it shouln't make a differnce if it used a lot or only a few times.
I hope I could explain my self a bit and again, thanks for fixing the page that quickly.
Hubert

Offline

#588 2014-07-01 13:09:46

cartinus
Member
From: Houten
Registered: 2008-01-06
Posts: 502

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Hubert87 wrote:

And, as you said, because I also "cycleway:left" and "cycleway:right", there is no harm if a renderer/router ignores it.

But now there has to be a special rule to ignore it, if the others are present. So it does harm.

Offline

#589 2014-07-01 15:45:07

Hubert87
Member
Registered: 2014-03-07
Posts: 339

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Could you explain that a little more please.
If I (as a Renderer) simply want to show all cyclways, regardless of their type and road side, I just look for "cycleway=*" (and additionly "bicycle=*" for all cyclable ways) and a "*=no" tag needs to be excluded either way. It then will show a line when the key is one of "lane/shared_lane/right/left/both/etc.". No Information lost there. Contrary, it is easier, because I wouldn't need to include "cycleway:right/left=*" to show that a cycleway is present if it is only tagged for one side of the road.
If I want to show the cycleway, regardless of its type, but on the correct side of the road, and I don't know the "cycleway=right/left/both" tags, I already have to look for a "cycleway:right/left=*" tag and render it on the appropriate side. "cycleway=right/left/both" doesn't concern me in that case. Also,when there is no "cycleway:right/left" key the values "right/left/both" wouldn't be present in the "cycleway" tag, since it would have the 'normal' "track/lane/shared_lane/etc." keys.
It also wouldn't be a problem, when I want to render the cycleway differntly for every type and on the correct side of the road. I still need a solution for when I have two differnt types on each side and that solution than also works if both side are the same.
What case am I missing that would't make it a problem?

Offline

#590 2014-07-01 16:05:11

noordfiets
Member
From: Groningen stad
Registered: 2010-02-14
Posts: 827

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Hubert, it's nice to see that the tag-checker is used internationally now ..
I did take a look at the ' Lübecker Methode". I can understand the underlying principles, but
from a Dutch point of view it's overly complicated.
But we in the Netherlands must realize that our approach to cycling is not common in the world.

As for Germany: in my experience only Ost-Friesland is quite simular to our roads. In fact: it' still feels like home ..

Offline

#591 2014-07-01 16:41:14

Hubert87
Member
Registered: 2014-03-07
Posts: 339

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

noordfiets wrote:

Hubert, it's nice to see that the tag-checker is used internationally now ..

Yes, it's a very nice tool, if you want to quickly check the bicycle/cycleway-taggings without loading everything in JOSM in filter it.

noordfiets wrote:

I did take a look at the ' Lübecker Methode". I can understand the underlying principles, but from a Dutch point of view it's overly complicated.

Yes, it is. And it took me a while to understand parts of it. Also, I don't map exactly like it, because I differ on some Keys or Values. But I like the structure. Plus it's nicely shows the problem when mixing the German-Order-System with our highway code and the possibilities of OSM.
Do you have non mandatory but exclusive cycleways in the Netherlands? I couldn't find anything with google or in wikipedia.

noordfiets wrote:

But we in the Netherlands must realize that our approach to cycling is not common in the world.

Not yet anyway. In germany we want dutch cycleways, the swiss rialway and the skandinavian educational system. Also other Countrys are looking towards the Netherlands on how to build cycleways.

noordfiets wrote:

As for Germany: in my experience only Ost-Friesland is quite simular to our roads. In fact: it' still feels like home ..

Yes, in the country side the cycleway "infrastructure" is fairly developed. One only has to share it with Pedestrians, Mofas, and tree roots. The Problems are the cities. That where it get complicated. Oh and one always has to watch for turning vehicles, not the otherway around.(Sadly no irony.)
Edit:Typo

Last edited by Hubert87 (2014-07-01 16:43:58)

Offline

#592 2014-07-01 17:35:26

cartinus
Member
From: Houten
Registered: 2008-01-06
Posts: 502

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Hubert87 wrote:

Could you explain that a little more please.

If you have cycleway=both (and no other tags) you have to make a guess as to what type. So you end op drawing that as e.g. bold blue casings to the road. A shared_lane would only get dashed casings. But you won't see that if you tag cycleway=both + cycleway:left=shared_lane + cycleway:right=shared_lane unless there is a special rule to ignore the cycleway=both if the others are present.

It's a bit like initially tagging a way with cycleway=track and then later drawing separate ways for the cycleways. If you don't remove the cycleway=track at that time, then you are saying that there are four cycleways in stead of two.

Last edited by cartinus (2014-07-01 17:38:22)

Offline

#593 2014-07-01 18:54:44

Hubert87
Member
Registered: 2014-03-07
Posts: 339

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Maybe the problem for me to understand your concern is, that I am using Maperitive and OsmAnd for Rendering. But:
1. I am not saying that one should only use cycleway=both/left/rigth and nothing else. I belive that if someone has little time or experience one can use it to discribe that a cycleway is present; so cycleway=right/left/both is to be places somewhere between cycleway=yes and cycleway=track/lane/shared_lane or cycleway:right/left=track/lane/shared_lane if the cycleway is only on one side of the road.
2. How do you distinguish a cycleway=shared_lane from an other type, let say cycleway=lane? It could only be a problem with bad rendering algorithms like

IF cycleway=shared_lane THEN 
  dashed line
ELSE
  solid line
ENDIF

Otherwise it wouldn't show up at all because cycleway=both/right/left are unknown.

IF cycleway=lane THEN solid line ENDIF 
IF cycleway=shared_lane THEN dashed line ENDIF 

And what about the case where you have two diferent types, lets say cycleway:left=shared_lane + cycleway:right=lane. Wouldn't that be a problem, too?
Also, is this a purely theoretical discussion? Or is there a renderer that doesn't render it correctly, so that I can see what I would cause with that?

Edit:First version accidently submitted by pressing <tab>

Last edited by Hubert87 (2014-07-01 19:00:06)

Offline

#594 2014-07-02 08:34:18

ligfietser
Moderator
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,152
Website

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

I think it's very confusing for mapmakers if there are a lot of interpretations on OSM around how to map cycleways. For instance in Lübeck they seem to have tags like cycleway:left=sidepath which is clearly not accepted widely on OSM and therefore not rendered on my Openfietsmap. I think this page describes the best what is widely accepted:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle

(Unfortunately the German and Dutch translations of this page have a totally different content!)

Offline

#595 2014-07-02 10:39:39

noordfiets
Member
From: Groningen stad
Registered: 2010-02-14
Posts: 827

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Hubert87 wrote:
noordfiets wrote:

But we in the Netherlands must realize that our approach to cycling is not common in the world.

Not yet anyway. In germany we want dutch cycleways, the swiss rialway and the skandinavian educational system. Also other Countrys are looking towards the Netherlands on how to build cycleways.

But it is often forgotten that building the ways is only part of the solution. There also needs to be a change in the way cyclists and motorists interact ..

Ligfietser:

The Lübeck method uses double tagging. On top of the double tagging there is also a relation added between the cycleway and main road.

A seperate cycleway ( eigenständiger Weg ) is tagged as highway=cycleway but the road next to it is tagged with cycleway:left/right/both and cycleway:left=sidepath pointing to the allready existing cycleway. So rendering of these extra tags in not needed. Lanes/tracks are tagged as usual, but additional the cycleway:left/right/both tag is used. Again this tag does not need to be rendered, since lane/track are allready rendered. Looking at it it seems that the Lübeck tags can be ingored without influencing normal rendering.
Apart from the double tagging there is also an addtional legal tagging: a cycleway is tagged with cycleway:designated. The latter is allready implied with highway=cycleway.

It is part of a project to render a citymap for cyclists. It seems tagging has been adapted to suit this project, and this project only.
I don't think it creates any problem with existing renderers like OFM: the additional tags are ignored, but the commonly used tags are still there and rendered.

Offline

#596 2014-07-02 13:27:50

Hubert87
Member
Registered: 2014-03-07
Posts: 339

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Indeed, cycleway:right/left=sidepath is just to say/warn that there is a highway=cycleway drawn sepretly but parallel the specific highway=road/*. Also, I don't know if there is a single renderer or router that uses it, but it might some day be interesting for routing in conjungtion with bicycle=use_sidepath. Right now its probably just used to keep the tagging strucktur in tact.
In fact, I just found a situation where one would get a problem with tagging cycleway=right/left/both. That is if there are one ore two separetly drwan cycleway next to the road. Then when just rendering all cycleway containing tags one would get 2 or 3 parallel line. I need to think about that a little.

Offline

#597 2014-07-03 01:24:22

Allroads
Member
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 2,823

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

noordfiets wrote:
Allroads wrote:

Jammer is het dat als je van het ene tagveld (cyclwaytags) naar het andere gaat (routetags)en je gaat weer terug, dat hij de instelling van vorig gebruik niet onthoud.
Dit switchen

Had gehoopt op een kerstcadeautje, maar ja de noordelijke kerstman had geen tijd.

Op mijn kaart werkt het inmiddel: http://server.mijneigen.net/fiets/tags

Ligfietser: idee om over te nemen, zo gemaakt dat het jouw wijzigingen niet in de weg zit?

Nu ook aan de gang geweest.
En kwam een dingentje tegen.
Had alles van jouw overgenomen met nieuwe structuur.
Maar miste de close.gif in de popup.
rechtsboven uit klikken wil wel

Popup_webkaartje.jpg

blijkt dat je de style.css en mystyle.css in de root van de webpagina hebt staan.
en dan staat in de style.css

.olPopupCloseBox {
  background: url("img/close.gif") no-repeat;
  cursor: pointer;
}

en dat verwijst naar een map img die niet in de root staat. Maar wel ?
en daar kan je mooi een tijdje mee bezig zijn styles vergelijken.



ik was ook dat pink roze zat als een layer niet werkt, toen ik struikelde over de code, ik heb er maar "bad" van gemaakt in de style

.olImageLoadError {
    background-color: #335bad;
    opacity: 0.5;
    filter: alpha(opacity=50); /* IE */
}

Offline

#598 2014-07-03 11:20:22

ligfietser
Moderator
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,152
Website

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Allroads, ik kan nergens een close.gif code vinden? hmm

Offline

#599 2014-07-03 11:45:22

noordfiets
Member
From: Groningen stad
Registered: 2010-02-14
Posts: 827

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Allroads wrote:

blijkt dat je de style.css en mystyle.css in de root van de webpagina hebt staan.
en dan staat in de style.css

.olPopupCloseBox {
  background: url("img/close.gif") no-repeat;
  cursor: pointer;
}

en dat verwijst naar een map img die niet in de root staat. Maar wel ?
en daar kan je mooi een tijdje mee bezig zijn styles vergelijken.

Ai, dat klopt. Bij het opruimen mapje teveel weggegooid ..
Ik heb alles gereorganiseerd en de api lokaal gezet ( wie weet hoelang openlayers nog de oude api blijft ondersteunen .. )
Het geheel staat in een http://server.mijneigen.net/fiets/tags/tags.zip zip bestand.

Hopelijk is het daarmee ook wat overzichtelijker geworden ...

Ligfietser: die close.gif kwam van de openlayers site, bij het aanpassen van de css klopte daarom de link niet meer.

Last edited by noordfiets (2014-07-03 11:47:43)

Offline

#600 2014-07-03 20:01:23

Allroads
Member
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 2,823

Re: Webkaartje met Fietstags

Omdat ik de kleurtjes van de bedieningelementen had aangepast. i.p.v. blauw standaard.
Had ik de openlayers.js en aanverwante zaken lokaal gezet, en daar stond in openlayers/theme/default/img/close.gif, die je te zien kreeg in de popup
de aangeroepen originele style (style.css) stond in de map default.
is niet zozeer het aanpassen originele style, maar de plaats van de style t.o.v. de overige mappen en dus verwijzing naar close.gif

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB