first of, thank you Kendzi for making the feature request. If this features gets added it would help alot to make a (building) preset and possible many others more usable. Regarding the preset itself, I’m quite unhappy with it. I’m not sure if Kendzi wanted it to be published at all, so please read this as factual criticism and not as a personal one:
We agreed on not using the “building:”-prefix for tags (also stated on the wiki site) so I’d remove it from the preset. We also agreed on using either roof:angle or roof:height, however, roof:height is missing. Then the preset contains much more roof types than we specified on our workshop and I thought every new root type should be added and voted in a yet-to-be-determined process via forum posts. Anyway, on the one hand it contains some usefull additional roof types but on the other hand it contains many roofs that can not even be specified in the current way at all: E.g. for sawtooth you’d need the number of tooths and the direction for it,… Besides the missing of our specified roof:levels (and roof:height as noted before) I’d overall suggest to make it a building-preset and not a roof-preset: I.e. also include min_height, height, levels, colour,… tags.
Regarding the other 3dr-tags: Those are the ones Kendzi supports and they’re kind of orthogonal to the other ones. I personally don’t like the “numbers” in it or the optional tags (length1 and height1), but I wouldn’t mind if they’re also in the preset. However, the other points above force me to strongly reject this preset. It should not be used or promoted in the current form.
I’m unsure whether I have presented it before, but I made a preset file for tagging buildings and building parts a few months ago while experimenting with roof shape mapping in Passau. You can find it here: http://osm2world.org/tools/josm-presets/latest.xml
After the 3D workshop, I’ve replaced the previous tags with those we agreed on during the discussion, so it should now be very close to the “Simple 3D Buildings” page.
Oh, and support for icons in JOSM presets would be really cool.
Thanks for criticism but this preset was made before we made any agreements. It wasn’t published anywhere. I only committed it o repository as base to make real one. So criticism it has no sens. More over I don’t think that publishing any preset without images has sense. Because no mater how roofs are described, by number or by names no one really remembers them.
We have tag roof:angle and roof:height for single surface roof. How do you propose name second angle and height for roofs with two surfaces like gambrel, mansard:
roof:height2 ?
roof:height:second ?
roof:angle2 ?
roof:angle:second ?
Tordanik:
I hope I can use parts of your preset?
Edit:
I have made some modification and after applying patch for images from simon04 it start looks usable:
Of course, feel free to reuse any part of my preset.
Works for me, and the icons make the selection much easier to understand! The preset contains all the necessary additional attributes. The material values can understandably only be placeholders because we haven’t really made a list of these yet.
One small thing I that noticed: It’s a bit annoying that I always need to clear the “building part” field when tagging a building without any parts. I’m not sure, but I think the might also be the reason why the preset does not show up above the attributes of a polygon tagged with “building=yes” - which makes the preset harder to access. As you can see in my preset file, I’ve chosen to do separate “Building” and “Building part” presets. There’s a lot of copy & paste in the xml, necessarily, but I find it more convenient to use that way.
Didn’t we agree on meeting that that all building=* should always have set up attribute building:part=yes?
Tordanik:
There is something wrong with new combo because your preset in this JOSM build don’t show icon above attributes too. But it showed in older version of JOSM. This icon can be good reason to copy preset for building outline too.
I don’t think so, and it would not make much sense imo. Why have two tags on every building outline?
This is what we wrote down in the EtherPad:
And this is the current interpretation of this in the wiki:
So if the entire building has just one height, then a building=yes is all that’s needed.
But this brings me to another question: What should we put in for that ? I cannot think of any plausible example where a building part has the same height and the same outline as the building as a whole.
Hm, didn’t we argue that building parts don’t need to be disjoint? I.e. a simple skyscraper with an extra service room on the roof would do the job, isn’t it?
Sorry, I misinterpreted it. It should not be possible to find an example for the “”-case as it would contradict the definition of the height tag.
This is great work. Looks realy good, I hope other presets will make use of it soon, too
E.g. for surfaces and such things by using the new texture library
I like your preset, however, I still have some notes
In the images you mixed hipped with half-hipped, they should be interchanged.
I like the images itself very much (they’re from Marek, right?!). I have 2 big monitors, so I don’t have a problem with the list. But probably for other users the images are too big. Perhaps it would be a good idea to make them a bit smaller?
It would be great if the Josm-devs would use the preset as default and remove the “old” ones “3D/Colors and materials” and “3D/Roof shape” as currently I have 4 presets per building (I also have Tordaniks preset which gives 4 presets in sum :))
I’m not 100% sure about that one, but perhaps it would be easier to restructure the preset a small bit and regroup the values:
For group building height: “height,min_height,levels,min_levels”
One group for roof: “roof shape, roof orientation” a bit space and then “roof levels, roof height and angle”
and keep color/material group as is
Start to use the texture library for wall/roof material
Yes images of roofs come from Marek. For me images are still to small so current size is compromise
Scroll bar should appear for smaller screen. So it shouldn’t be a problem. Look at 3d>Roof 3dr
The idea was to made Simple 3d Building preset which provide only option described on wiki page [1] so this preset well have only limited list of roofs to not confused new users. All additional roof shape well be provided by others presets menu. Eg for roofs you have menu 3D>Roof shape or 3D>Roof type. The same with materials.
So maybe in future this preset should be split to two different?
I’m not 100% sure about that one, but perhaps it would be easier to restructure the preset a small bit and regroup the values:
For group building height: “height,min_height,levels,min_levels”
One group for roof: “roof shape, roof orientation” a bit space and then “roof levels, roof height and angle”
and keep color/material group as is
I well think about it.
For me textures should be described by color/material. If not we need at first decide how to tag and assign textures…
Quick note: at this time, having rephotographed some buildings for textures, I believe the tags with the greatest effect on the texture are building:color=* and start_date=*. As a reasonable start, anyway.
It looks like only I don’t like direction tag and everybody else love it. So should I add it to preset? Of course with annotation that it not part of standard yet?
Sorry Kendzi, but imho this is plain wrong. The only one who commented specifically on that topic was me. And I clearly stated that both (yours and Tordanik’s) suggestions have disadvantages (i.e. I don’t like them).
From my tagging experience, more than 90% of the houses are rectangular and work with the S3DB+accross/along-tag. However, I don’t have a constructive comment/solution/proposal for the other cases (yet), so I’ll shut up on this issue for now and will map only the easy cases
I also do not love the direction tag. Its just that I’m not really happy with the alternative, too.
I’m still considering to add 3dr:direction to OSM2World, at least temporarily until we agree on a final solution. (None of the solutions is final right now, so I’m not sure whether you should add any of them to the preset at this point.) Before that, we should indeed try to find a better name for it, though - I’ll comment on that in the other thread later.
Unifying the tags to e.g. roof:direction would require documenting the meaning of “direction” of all roof types. But the same is necessary for 3dr:direction, I believe?
The preset contains all the necessary additional attributes. The material values can understandably only be placeholders because we haven’t really made a list of these yet.
