New gov data source

yrtimiD · 2012-11-28 10:28:42

Something interesting from Talk-il:

From: Moshe Sayag msayag@gmail.com
Subject: [Talk-il] Using free gov data in OSM
Little by little, some governmental and municipal data in Israel is released for use under open licenses.
Some of this data has geographic value that can be embed in OSM.
Is there any active effort in that direction?
Does anyone see any reason why not to do it?
sources:
http://data.gov.il
http://www.tel-aviv.gov.il/OnlineServic … -Aviv.aspx
Moshe

The last link have some very useful data! Worth to take a look.

msayag · 2012-11-28 12:04:39

The license of Tel-Aviv state specifically that you are free to process the data:
הנך חופשי לבצע

להעתיק, לפרסם, להפיץ ולשדר את המידע.
להכשיר ולעבד את המידע.
לנצל את המידע לכל מטרה חוקית בהתאם לדין.

The FAQ in the gov site answers that no special permission is required:
אני רוצה לפרסם מידע שמצאתי באתר, האם צריך אישור מיוחד?
המידע פתוח לשימוש חופשי ולא נדרש כל אישור מיוחד.
כיצד ניתן להשתמש במידע שמופיע באתר?
המידע הינו חופשי וניתן להשתמש בו בכל דרך, בכפוף לתנאי השימוש.
http://data.gov.il/faq

The only issue I see, with both sources, is the requirement to give credit, which is reasonable, but I don't know how it can be done in OSM

yrtimiD · 2012-11-28 12:05:50

msayag wrote:

The only issue I see, with both sources, is the requirement to give credit, which is reasonable, but I don't know how it can be done in OSM

May be using source=* will be enough?

msayag · 2012-11-28 12:35:29

The gov faq state:
6. כל כלי, יישום או שירות העושים שימוש במידע מצביר נתונים אשר מקורו באתר זה יכיל אזכור ברור לזיהוי מקור הנתונים מאתר זה, בדרך של ציון שם האתר ושם צבירי הנתונים בהם נעשה שימוש ומועד עדכונם
("Every tool, application or service that uses data from datasets from this site shall mention clearly the source of the data from this site, by stating the names of the site and the datasets that have been used and the date they where updated", free translation by me )

I don't know if a tag is sufficient.
Perhaps a text that is printed under or over the map is requested, or maybe somewhere in an info page/file.
How is it done in other places?

yrtimiD · 2012-11-28 12:43:15

Just for comparison, what was thebing maps license? Did they want the source mentioned, or just released data to public domain?

msayag · 2012-11-28 12:44:06

I also don't know how to read this (from the license for Tel-Aviv data):
בעת ביצוע שימוש במידע ובמאגרי המידע , הנך מחויב
לציין את מקור המידע ולצרף קישור, בכל אשר ניתן, לרישיון זה.

eric22 · 2012-11-28 12:51:05

I'm guessing a tag is not sufficient. Map users will not see it.

And we can't control what people do/make with OSM data, as long as they follow the general OSM licence, so I don't think extra text or an info page would work.

Perhaps we should approach the organizations directly, asking them to clarify if our use is OK? Even if our use does not fit the technical license requirements, perhaps they will give us a special exception, since it fits the spirit of the requirements.

eric22 · 2012-11-28 12:53:30

בעת ביצוע שימוש במידע ובמאגרי המידע , הנך מחויב
לציין את מקור המידע ולצרף קישור, בכל אשר ניתן, לרישיון זה.

means:
"When you use the information and database, you are required to indicate the source of the information and to attach a link, if possible, to this license."

The question is, does "use" mean map use or just map editing. I think it means both.

Mr_Israel · 2012-11-28 21:51:51

Bing was not a import. They are providing a source background image that the OSM community is allowed to use.
In this case we could do a import, but we are not allowed without they agreement to publish the data under <a href="http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/">ODbL</a>.

I think we could use the data if its a image and we could map it from it and define it as source. But this should not be our first option!

Can somebody get in contact with them in Hebrew?
We really need some contacts in the open data team of Israel. I'm not sure they are aware of us.

eric22 · 2012-11-29 18:10:51

I sent a (Hebrew) request to the Tel Aviv municipality. We'll see what they say...

eric22 · 2012-12-03 15:15:19

TA municipality replies...
הנכם יכולים לעשות שימוש במידע ובנתונים כל עוד אתם עומדים בתנאי רישיון השימוש
לרבות לציין בצורה ברורה באתר שלכם ולבצע קישור לרישיון השימוש שלנו.

"...to indicate clearly on your site and to make a link to our license".

Sounds like a no then.

Mr_Israel · 2012-12-03 19:13:01

This is poor...
Hard to understand, that they publish so many data to the public, but only small local website could use this data and show the license.
The big player and OSM are not allowed to use this data if the license is that unclear like in this scenario.

I would answer them that we (OSM) are the biggest worldwide operating mapping and geodata plattform, and we could not add a link to every cities license pages.
This is not realistic.

dimka · 2012-12-03 19:59:22

Hey folks, I do believe it is possible. The OSM project has a list of all contributors, and we already have a mention of KKL data (their license was very similar, basically do whatever you want with the data but give credit).
See here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Israel

Also here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright

I think in this case we don't need to worry.

dimka

msayag · 2012-12-03 21:39:43

Good news

I asked for advice from HaSadna (הסדנא לידע ציבורי http://www.hasadna.org.il), and got the following reply from their lawyer, Jonathan Klinger:

:לפני שנה, בהוועצות עם ניר מהמשרד של מיקי OSM זה העתק של מייל שנשלח ל
Hi Mike and how are you? It's been a while.
I'm writing to you after a long discussion with the people here in Data.gov.il, and especially the Director for Open Information at the ministry of public services, Mr. Nir Hirshman (cced on this mail).
Data.gov.il is an Israeli website that released quite a lot of public information under a public-domain license for the public's use.
We recently found out that a discussion at the OSM forums was inquiring about the information:
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopi … 65#p244665
I wanted to tell you that I reviewed the brief terms specified in Data.gov.il, they allow free use of the data without any restrictions, and you can contact Mr. Hirshman for any other related information.

Last edited by msayag (2012-12-03 21:42:34)

Mr_Israel · 2012-12-04 10:04:00

that are great news....

yrtimiD · 2012-12-04 16:19:04

Anyway, adding "thank to data.gov.il" at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Israel still be nice

eric22 · 2012-12-22 21:27:16

I am in the process of uploading Tel Aviv address based on this source...

eric22 · 2012-12-22 21:29:05

I am in the process of uploading Tel Aviv address based on this source...

Mr_Israel · 2012-12-22 21:53:27

This looks really scary... the housenumbers are like tiny flies sitting on my monitor

Amazing result!!! GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!!!

yrtimiD · 2012-12-22 22:28:23

Mr_Israel wrote:

This looks really scary

Yep, but now we can see where streets are missing.
Also, I'm thinking about deleting old addr info withing tel-aviv borders (with source other then muni data), otherwise we'll have many duplicates.

Mr_Israel · 2012-12-22 22:48:23

Please don't delete automatically.... It took me soo much time to collect them
(I know its not that much, but still)

Let us consider deleting them, and let me check if every manual insert from me is the same in the Tel Aviv Dataset.
Probably there is no change but still. Give me some time.

yrtimiD · 2012-12-22 22:50:52

Mr_Israel wrote:

Please don't delete automatically.... It took me soo much time to collect them sad

Ofcourse I'll not delete them automatically It's only proposition.
We can firstly export all old addresses and then decide what to do with them.

eric22 · 2012-12-23 00:10:28

All finished now...

If you see only some of the numbers, refresh the image, because I uploaded in two batches and the image shows only the first batch.

Now we should finish adding buildings to the city where possible, and align the existing buildings and addresses where necessary so that they match each other.

Also, in Kfar Shalem (southeast corner of the city) there are entire streets missing, the addresses (including street name as well as number!) should allow us to reconstruct the streets there. Possibly also in Yafo too.

Last edited by eric22 (2012-12-23 00:13:48)

Mr_Israel · 2012-12-23 10:36:05

yrtimiD wrote:

Mr_Israel wrote:
Please don't delete automatically.... It took me soo much time to collect them sad
Ofcourse I'll not delete them automatically It's only proposition.
We can firstly export all old addresses and then decide what to do with them.

Lets export and delete all old address data in TelAviv. I don't see a reason to keep it anymore. The new data seems very accurate and should be used in the future.

####################

Before we start adding buildings, we should look if there are any issues with the new data:

1. There are for example a lot of double nodes on the same place now with housenumbers:

Examples:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2078995971
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2079069558
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2079170726
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2079171381
and hundreds more.

2. If I understand correctly there are house numbers only available for Tel Aviv municipality.
Meaning that this is the most accurate information so far what are the administrative borders for the Tel Aviv municipality.
Can we adjust the relation of TelAviv by this information?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.09 … on=1382494

3. Letters in front of the number
Is it a mapnik bug to show all Hebrew letters on the left of the house number?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2078973169

eric22 · 2012-12-23 15:33:23

Can we adjust the relation of TelAviv by this information?

Yes, but carefully.
This area is actually in TA, I think:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.06 … 7&layers=M
This area is not:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.03 … 8&layers=M
In general, one or two numbers are not sufficient proof that an area is in TA, but an entire street is sufficient proof.

Announcement

#1 2012-11-28 10:28:42

New gov data source

#2 2012-11-28 12:04:39

Re: New gov data source

#3 2012-11-28 12:05:50

Re: New gov data source

#4 2012-11-28 12:35:29

Re: New gov data source

#5 2012-11-28 12:43:15

Re: New gov data source

#6 2012-11-28 12:44:06

Re: New gov data source

#7 2012-11-28 12:51:05

Re: New gov data source

#8 2012-11-28 12:53:30

Re: New gov data source

#9 2012-11-28 21:51:51

Re: New gov data source

#10 2012-11-29 18:10:51

Re: New gov data source

#11 2012-12-03 15:15:19

Re: New gov data source

#12 2012-12-03 19:13:01

Re: New gov data source

#13 2012-12-03 19:59:22

Re: New gov data source

#14 2012-12-03 21:39:43

Re: New gov data source

#15 2012-12-04 10:04:00

Re: New gov data source

#16 2012-12-04 16:19:04

Re: New gov data source

#17 2012-12-22 21:27:16

Re: New gov data source

#18 2012-12-22 21:29:05

Re: New gov data source

#19 2012-12-22 21:53:27

Re: New gov data source

#20 2012-12-22 22:28:23

Re: New gov data source

#21 2012-12-22 22:48:23

Re: New gov data source

#22 2012-12-22 22:50:52

Re: New gov data source

#23 2012-12-23 00:10:28

Re: New gov data source

#24 2012-12-23 10:36:05

Re: New gov data source

#25 2012-12-23 15:33:23

Re: New gov data source

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