Hey Eric,
Of course you can change the size of the columns. This shouldn’t be a issue.
This is just a visualization problem you writing about.
We could make them very small and define to grey them out if they are empty anyway.
This would make it even easier to avoid them…
I have changed the view of the table. It should be fitting more onto the browser now.
@yrtimiD: Can you tell me if you can reimport my table (technically speaking)?
I personally don’t know how to do that, thats why I haven’t done anything so far on my table. But I would be very fast finished, if you tell me that you are able to work with it.
I think yes, but to be sure - I’d need a version column.
Also, your ID column looks very strange to me.
If you tell me how get your columns, then I will add them.
I’m using OSMCONVERT to create the table and the details are listed bellow.
yrtimiD - can you upload every entry in your table which has a number in the Update column, OR for all which all three entries (name, name:en, name:he) are present? After that is done, we can use Mr_Israel’s table (or a variation of it).
Mr_Israel: I must have a browser issue…
Here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8w81rgmuxd0x7lk/israel_only.poly
is mine israel only .poly file.
Because I have no good knowledge in palestinian areas, I tried to include all settlements with hebrew names.
Fill free to edit and publish.
I haven’t received that much feedback about the problems I specified.
So here again a kind of summary… Please give me a feedback of your opinion. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense to work through so much data and update OSM without taking about this and that problem right away.
1. Street name translations not standardized
Eric22: (?)
yrtimiD: (?)
Mr_Israel: I would try to standardize the street names in some kind of way. I would recommend to use a standard translation and don’t care about the translation written on the street sign.
Current situation:
מנדלי מוכר ספרים Mendele Mocher Sfarim
מנדלי מוכר הספרים Mendele Mocher Sforim
מנדלי מוכר הספרים Mendele Moher Sefarim
מנדלי מוכר ספרים Mendele Moher Sefarim
מנדלי מוכר ספרים Mendelei Mocher Sfarim
מנדלי מוכר ספרים Mendeley Moher Sfarim
מנדלי מוכר ספרים Mendeli Mokher Sfarmin
What I would use in all 7 cases:
[name] [name:he] [name:he1] [name:en] [name:en1] [name:en2] [name:en3] [name:en4] [name:en5]
מנדלי מוכר הספרים מנדלי מוכר ספרים מנדלי מוכר ספרים Mendele Mocher Sfarim Mendele Mocher Sforim Mendele Moher Sefarim Mendelei Mocher Sfarim Mendeley Moher Sfarim Mendeli Mokher Sfarmin
**2. Ha (“ה”) or no Ha in front of the street name **
Eric22: (?)
yrtimiD: (?)
Mr_Israel:
Use the street name as written on the street sign for the “name” tag of the way and translate the words to English.
Please try as much as possible to use name:en1 for the root of the word, to make it easier to find.
Example:
name:en HaGalil
name:en1 Galil
**3. With a apostrophe after Ha (“ה”) or without in the English translation **
yrtimiD: (?)
Eric22:
Nominatim already removes apostrophes when you search - try searching for “Earls Court” and “Earl’s Court”, for each search you will get results with and without apostrophe. I think the name on the sign has to always be one of the stored names. Whether it should be name:en or name:en1, I’d have to think more.
Mr_Israel:
I would like to remove all quotes from the Ha phenomen, no matter what is written on the street sign.
There is no reason to keep it and create even more variations of street names with this strange character.
It shouldn’t matter if the translation is written on the street name with a apostrophe. We should remove all of them from the name:en tag. If you think the information should be still saved, we could save it as name:en1.
Checked manual for osmconvert, and it looks like impossible to output version of the object.
Also, now I know how to convert back your ID values.
I needed the version value to be sure I do not overwrite somebody else’s changes.
So, Mr_Israel, I think you can continue your fixes, and then you’ll finish, I’ll apply all non empty values from changed rows back to the ways and upload them to the OSM.
I’ll actually will prefer the wikipedia variant of translation in name:en (for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendele_Mocher_Sforim)
also, i’d drop all 100% incorrect variants like “Mendeli Mokher Sfarmin”
I’m really not sure if we need to keep all that strange english varians, I’d keep only one, mostly used translation (if it’s equal to the wikipedia variant)
For hebrew names - must be only one value, as all other are for sure mistaken.
About Ha* and Ha’* I’m really don’t know what is better and right, but for sure we must normalize all to one schema.
So how would you like to decide what version is correct.
With or without “Ha” ?
Example:
מנדלי מוכר ספרים
מנדלי מוכר [b]ה[/b]ספרים
I don’t want to be the one to delete correct value, because I think I’m more accurate than the person that did the editing.
We should try to never loose any data.
Beside that we have also the issue of Jerusalem. Should we translate it to name:en=Jerusalem or name:en=Yerusalaim
This will not be answered by Wikipedia.
And also I’m not sure with “Mokher” and “Moher” and “Mocher”.
iGo for example would use “Mokher”.
IMHO, the version “מנדלי מוכר הספרים” is wrong. But here we do have wiki for answer.
For other cases it’s quite difficult to know what is right, as we all saw many road signs with awful typing errors.
I asked my friend (his mother learned linguistics), so tomorrow we’ll possible get answer about apostrophe usage after Ha.
Let’s for start fix all typing errors and all common errors like:
א.ד. גורדיון (wrong Yud)
אהרונוביץ (no ' at the end)
אירוס ארגמן (for sure must be HaArgaman in hebrew)
אלוף הניצחון or אלוף הנצחון
אריה דולצין or אריה דולצ'ין
all variants of ארלוזורוב must be for sure ד"ר חיים ארלוזורוב
same for ביאליק must be full name and not shortcut
etc...
Ok.
After 2 - 3 hours of work, I have a table with a lot of fixes ready.
There is still a lot left to do in the table, but its very interesting if the upload will be possible that easy or not.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjoRSMeOZcXDdGFaYjFZcXB6eS1RTVR1RGhmWjI3M2c
Following things have been changed so far:
To Mr_Israel’s questions:
(I assume that almost all English translations are based on assumptions or general knowledge, not having actually looked carefully at the spelling on the sign.)
Agreed
Not sure about this one. On Tel Aviv street signs there is no ד"ר and I don’t think the average person would think to look for this. And when I search for the address on the Israel post office website (that’s pretty official, no?) it just uses ארלוזורוב in Tel Aviv and Haifa (the only two I checked)! So I think maybe we shouldn’t add first names and titles when they aren’t already there.
If you pronounce “Yerushalayim” you’re probably already using Hebrew letters, and “Jerusalem” is universally known, and it avoids issues with all the Arabs and international people who also consider the city to be “theirs”, so I prefer “Jerusalem”. “Yerushalayim” should be a secondary name.
About name:en
this tag is for rendering map for english speaking people, so if some name have well known english translation - it must be used. And if we have such well known name - all transliterations like “Yerushalaim” unneeded.
If somebody want to review (and update) all city and towns he/en/ar/ru names:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AolLjmdDjvyydFUySlBiY1NwWUV1dm9wQVBrOVBCTEE
We can use Wikipedia as a resource for this, right?
For checking names and adding wiki links - I think yes.
If for some city we have both node and way with almost same tags:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/27132996
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27244120
What would you do?
It’s an area. I suppose an area is preffered to a node, right?
Guys, I need help with http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/278470160
Once it was “Bet Ma`on”, but after some update became partly “טבריה עילית”
is this different names for the same place? or a completely different places?