Стандард у означавању картографских објеката за карту Србије

unconnected overlapping ways are not nice. I have fixed it how I think it should be. Most turn restrictions are implicit by oneway tags. Only the center intersection must have three turn restrictions (only_straight_on) i.e. that this center point can not be used to turn.
Would appreciate if you could take a look. Thanks

@Thomas
I really don’t see a problem with leaving ways non-intersecting if that faithfully represents reality. Adding all these non-turn restriction relations is just creating unnecessary extra work that somebody has to maintain.

I don’t know, this might looks simpler, but I would agree with Tomas, adding restriction relations is proper way to go, it’s cleaner and more faithful representation of situation on the ground. With overlapping roads it looks like this roads are not even connected which is not true, they are part of the same intersection and you could, even thou you shouldn’t, make illegal turn in reality. Current solution looks like lazy man solution.

Well, in reality you could turn from a physical point of view. It is not allowed and I would not try it during the rush hour but 4 o’clock in the morning it probably works. The legal restrictions should be applied to show the legal point of view and it is up to the consumers to decide wether they follow the traffic law or not. If the cosumer is an emergency service, they probably ignore the traffic restriction. Leaving it unconnected, it is you who make the decision for all data consumers…just my point of view. Anyway, this is just an extra, there are many other, more serious things that needs to be improved.

Sorry that I’am intude into yours talk, and maybe miss respect to Serbian local mapping traditions.

Let’s see http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.801397&lon=20.380961&zoom=18&layers=M
You say that it’s more accurate way of mapping. But what is mapped more accurate? What extra data are mapped?

Is area of hw crossing is more accurate? No, if you want more details area:highway do it better. Is some extra information about lanes - no. Is it helpfull for renders - no, is it helpfull for routing - no.

But if you map crosses for pedestrians (highway=crossing) - it,s extra job, and extra abstracts (2 crosses instead of one). If you adjust highway by tracks - more job. Car navigation start to say some strange things like “keep left” instead of clearly “turn left”. It’s hard to validate this data: is it big junction and someone miss remember set bridge and layer information?

So I just can’t understand why this four left turns mapped by separated way? No physical dividers (turning lanes for right turn is separated - and it’s cool that it mapped separate). I can’t find any way how to use this extra lines, how to apply it for better maps.

I have to agree, this intersection is a mess… Does it even make sense to leave the two lanes separated like that? Is there no way to actually denote how many lanes there are?

@Drazha
Those are physically separated ways, so yes, they have to stay like that (if you meant ways for opposite directions).

@dkiselev
I see your point, but IMHO this is still better than having perpendicular ways with intersecting nodes and with no information on turn restrictions.

If you guys feel this is too messy and want to commit to maintaining all the turn restriction relations, by all means, go for it.

One question though: how does a relation restricting the U-turn look like in that case?

@kmilos: Nehruova street is separated just before the intersection with Jurija Gagarina. If you look at the actual Bing map, there is no … “hedge lane” there, there are 5 lanes, with the middle lane being one way half of its lenght, and the other way the other half. So that does not actually represent the factual state.

I have found some interesting articles in the OSM documentation, and I believe that we do not need the… “criss-cross” roads drawn in there. If you do not mind, I will try to sort this out myself, and then we can pehaps test the routing with something like yoursnavigation.org. Or maybe one of you local guys can give it a go with a satnav or something.

In broader sense, I see that the way the roads are marked seem to be wrong. I would classify Jurija Gagarina as a trunk. It is not a motorway, since it has other streets crossing it. But it is a major, almost motorway class road. In the documentation this is called a “trunk”. I am not sure if you agree with this.

BR//Drazha

Not in my Bing (and my memory), there is a good 50m of ‘green island’ before Jurija Gagarina on Nehruova.

Again, how do you represent a U-turn restriction on the perpendicular intersection grid?

Also, just to show we have not ‘invented’ this mapping style, there are similar examples in e.g. Austria [1].

I’d personally go for primary and leave trunk for longer non-residential stretches (Beograd-Pančevo is a good example) [2], but this is probably a 50/50 decision.

P.S. Since you’re a moderator, please split of this discussion in a separate thread.

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/highway%3Djunction#Example
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_tag_usage

E sad ste se vratili na temu :slight_smile: Jedan od razloga zašto sam je pokrenuo je potreba da se narpavi nekakva definicija svih vrsta puteva koji se mogu naći u Srbiji i da se to korsiti kao standad.

Naime, postoji potreba za finijom definicijom koja pokriva sve oblasti, od gradova, preko saobraćajnica pa sve do seoskih i planinskih puteva i puteljaka.

Ako bi ovo bilo urađeno mnogo bi olakšalo svima a naročito noajlijam ada se snađu i pravilno obeležavaju puteve.

Instead of a via-node use a via-way in the restriction relation (this small part of a way between the two oneways)

@Thomas
Cool, thought the ‘via’ role had to be just a node…

The strange thing is that a turn restriction can have only one via node but one or more via-ways…at least it is said. Not sure why. I suggest to try it somewhere

I guess because there is more than one way (i.e. infinite) to connect two end points (obvious one being the straight line of course).

Ok guys, I messed around with http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.801397&lon=20.380961&zoom=18&layers=M

I think this should work much better now. There are still things to be added like lanes, lane turns, restrictions for lanes etc…

Who would have thought that one intersection could be so much trouble?

I guess we will have to spawn another topic to track some of these things. Perhaps also start working on the wiki with tutorials.

Sorry, but this looks very weird to me, never seen an intersection mapped like this by fusing the way in the intersection to one!?

Nehruova is physically separated on both sides of Jurija Gagarina for sure by a green island that narrows down to a raised curb, and I think everybody else expected to see two pairs of perpendicular ways. I have changed it to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.801724&lon=20.38109&zoom=18&layers=M (might need a refresh)

Hia,

Sorry, my bad. I was looking at the http://binged.it/Sc1S2q and it seemed to me that the island in between was actually just a flat surface, not one of those low profile concrete barriers.

With regards turns, and restrictions, I think this is better then it was before? Any opinions on that? Should we separate this into a new topic?

Потоји ли неки договор око означавања места?

Наишао сам на један проблем. Пријепоље и село Коловрат које се налази одмах поред Пријепоља су уцртани како објекти исте катогоерије па су тако и рендеровани на мапи. Чак се често дешава да рендер прикаже назив Коловрат а да нема назива Пријепоље. Разлика између ова два меса је ипак велика. Пријепоље је админстративни центар општине а Коловрат је само село. Како ово исправити?

@Pedja
Očigledno je Kolovrat pogrešno kategorisan. Međutim, ne mogu da nađem podatke o broju stanovnika, a ni samo naselje na Vikipediji, samo referencu za arheološko nalazište… Trebalo bi verovatno spustiti u kategoriju village/suburb/neighbuorhood. Ja se otprilike držim sugestija 10.000/100.000 na http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place

Inače sam pri skorom dodavanju opštinskih relacija sva sedišta unapredio u ‘town’ bez obzira na veličinu, a slično i sedišta okruga u ‘city’.

Како је најбоље направити разлику између врхова? У карту се уцртавају сви врхови, али када се рендерује карта приказивати све њих је непрактично. Треба на неки начин да наравим разлику и на карти прикажем само битније врхове а не сваку коту коај је означена као ‘peak’. Постоји ли неки договорени начин да се ово постигне?