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#1 2011-11-26 10:34:07

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

I need help with 3dr

So i make some more experience wiht 3dr. But Now I need some help.
I have tried to make a dificult building here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.05 … 8&layers=M
http://maps.google.de/?ll=51.057811,13. … 20&vpsrc=6
The first smal problem is the edge with the entrace. For this I think is rooftype 2.2 the best one. But I need 3dr:length1=0. At the moment it is imposible.
The second problem are the dormers. Here are two differnt types and I'm not shure how to tag it.
The first dormer is situated at the smal building with the entrace. http://vkw.bplaced.net/osm/CIMG0049.JPG. It seems to bee type e and is not implemented now. But I try type a for the first time and I could not get ane result:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:3 … Dachgauben
I test 3dr:dormers:1-4=a but it don't work. Then I read this isn't implemented for now only 3dr:type=2.0.aa.b are working. So I try 3dr:type=2.2.a.a.a.a But I can't see any dormer. Maybe there is need some more to see it.
The secound dormer you can see right from the tower on the roof. This one begin right from the first tower and end left of the third tower. http://vkw.bplaced.net/osm/CIMG0046.JPG. Maybe it is breaked from the secoung tower but this dosent matter in the moment because there is a building:part too so you can't see it. How to implement this one?
Here you can see this type of dormer at the right house http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/3dsample.jpg/ but in my dachy.osm is not such an example.
I have a look at these http://www.openstreetmap.pl/kendzi/Kend … /dachy.osm and this one http://www.openstreetmap.pl/kendzi/Kend … /dachy.osm
And the last problem is maybe the balcony from the first picture at the left site. For now there is only a cuboid avalible.
If you like you can extract from the picture the wall texture. Is there the need of a other picture?

Last edited by viw (2011-11-26 10:39:05)

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#2 2011-11-26 18:27:22

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

Re: I need help with 3dr

An other problem will be that there is no support for relation type=mulitpolygon. So this buildings are not present for the plugin

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#3 2011-11-26 22:45:23

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

So i make some more experience wiht 3dr. But Now I need some help.
I have tried to make a dificult building here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.05 … 8&layers=M
http://maps.google.de/?ll=51.057811,13. … 20&vpsrc=6

I have to say that building looks great.

The first smal problem is the edge with the entrace. For this I think is rooftype 2.2 the best one. But I need 3dr:length1=0. At the moment it is imposible.

Problem fixed. But I think more suitable should be type 2.7 with l1 set to 0.

The second problem are the dormers. Here are two differnt types and I'm not shure how to tag it.
The first dormer is situated at the smal building with the entrace.http://vkw.bplaced.net/osm/CIMG0049.JPG. It seems to bee type e and is not implemented now. But I try type a for the first time and I could not get ane result:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:3 … Dachgauben
I test 3dr:dormers:1-4=a but it don't work. Then I read this isn't implemented for now only 3dr:type=2.0.aa.b are working. So I try 3dr:type=2.2.a.a.a.a But I can't see any dormer. Maybe there is need some more to see it.

You can use tag eg 3dr:dormers.front=a. Tag 3dr:dormers=a.a.a.a should also work but is not recommended. Please look at English wiki:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Roof … or_dormers


The secound dormer you can see right from the tower on the roof. This one begin right from the first tower and end left of the third tower. http://vkw.bplaced.net/osm/CIMG0046.JPG. Maybe it is breaked from the secoung tower but this dosent matter in the moment because there is a building:part too so you can't see it. How to implement this one?
Here you can see this type of dormer at the right house http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/3dsample.jpg/ but in my dachy.osm is not such an example.
I have a look at these http://www.openstreetmap.pl/kendzi/Kend … /dachy.osm and this onehttp://www.openstreetmap.pl/kendzi/Kend … /dachy.osm

If you want to change size of dormer you can do it with tag:
3dr:dormer:width1, 3dr:dormer:heigth1
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File … sSizes.svg
but this change sizes of all dormers on roof. The Example is on file you give link. Some of dormers there have different size.

My proposal for change of size each dormer is here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pl:R … ne_lukarny
But this isn't implemented.


And the last problem is maybe the balcony from the first picture at the left site. For now there is only a cuboid avalible.

"For now there is only a cuboid avalible." Sorry I don't understand this.

If you like you can extract from the picture the wall texture. Is there the need of a other picture?

I'd like to do it but the problem with textures is that preparing them take me a long time. I will be grateful if someone could help with it.

An other problem will be that there is no support for relation type=mulitpolygon. So this buildings are not present for the plugin.

There is no support for multipolygons. And adding it take rather long time. For now you can add tag building=yes to outer polygon in relation, but for holes in it you have to wait.

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#4 2011-11-27 10:55:43

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

Re: I need help with 3dr

kendzi wrote:

And the last problem is maybe the balcony from the first picture at the left site. For now there is only a cuboid avalible.

"For now there is only a cuboid avalible." Sorry I don't understand this.

The problem is, that balcony are in reality not closed cuboids. The balcony has a place, where people can go. And the boarder is a wall or a fence. You can see it on the picture.

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#5 2011-11-27 10:58:19

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

Re: I need help with 3dr

kendzi wrote:

If you like you can extract from the picture the wall texture. Is there the need of a other picture?

I'd like to do it but the problem with textures is that preparing them take me a long time. I will be grateful if someone could help with it.

is somewere a tutorial availible? Maybe Marek can describe in german. It would be great.

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#6 2011-11-27 13:42:38

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

The problem is, that balcony are in reality not closed cuboids. The balcony has a place, where people can go. And the boarder is a wall or a fence. You can see it on the picture.

I think it should be tag as fence: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dfence
barrier=fence
fence_type=?
height=XX
min_height=XX

For tags height and min_height you have to download new version of plugin (60). For now I have only one texture for all types of fence.

I used this tutorial for creating textures in GIMP: http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Tileable_Textures/  it is easy but take a lot of time.

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#7 2011-11-27 17:04:21

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

Re: I need help with 3dr

kendzi wrote:

The problem is, that balcony are in reality not closed cuboids. The balcony has a place, where people can go. And the boarder is a wall or a fence. You can see it on the picture.

I think it should be tag as fence: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dfence
barrier=fence
fence_type=?
height=XX
min_height=XX

For tags height and min_height you have to download new version of plugin (60). For now I have only one texture for all types of fence.

I used this tutorial for creating textures in GIMP: http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Tileable_Textures/  it is easy but take a lot of time.

Thank you for your fast support. But this is not the solution for the most of balconys. because they are in different levels at the same position over ground. So I will need relation for every level or an other solution, right?

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#8 2011-11-27 18:35:00

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

I think it should be allowed to put one way on top of other. Relations only complicate simple things. Unfortunately not everybody agree with it. I will add support for relation but it take some time and first we must determine how to tag it.

My proposal is relation with tags:
type=way (???)
barrier=fence
fence_type=* 
height=
min_height=

and way with role: way

If you have idea how to tag this relation please write.

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#9 2011-11-27 19:40:40

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

Re: I need help with 3dr

I think at first we have to agree why relations are difficult and not good to be used.
I would prefer relations because there are no things in map present if you don't want them. The example of the little building show exact the problem. There are hundreds of ways over each other an all only for a 3D buliding! The way with the tag building=yes has a height=0 because I don't need and would not have present in any way in 3D but its needed for 2D map.
We have many possibilities to create our own 3D shema. I would prefer for relations type=3d or 3dr because so any other person now its for 3D only!
Then you can make relations from Ways, of course, but there is the same problem like the wheelchairprojekt in germany have. (in my opinion) because you have to split the way at each point where only one key changed. When you look now forward to our 3D project you have to split the ground way in small pieces because in 2 level is the window smaler or in 3 level will be no window. And if the windows are not in one line in every level you have relations wich contain hunderets of ways.
The solution maybe could be a relation of points. The advantage is you can choose the order of the points and change them if you need verry easy. And if you need different start points maybe in future you can make a new relation. For the same way it is imposible.
So the easiest way is a relation of points in the order like a way would be. And now your problem is solved. For rendering it is more confortable too I think. because for an cuboid building you have to account only 4 points on the edge. Not the entrace and so on. But this is only my idea in very bad english.

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#10 2011-11-27 21:34:52

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

And we back where we start. Because for me way is simple relation without roles on nodes. So why not to use many ways on the same nodes one on the other?

Can you give me example of relation working on nodes?

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#11 2011-11-28 18:03:53

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

Re: I need help with 3dr

So now I try to make a example:
http://vkw.bplaced.net/osm/example.osm

This two buildings should be the same building.

The main advantage I think is that there are not much Ways with no function wich can confuse other users. Editing is a little bit difficult, but I think it is only a question of the editor. The editor can make 3dr Relations avalible like ways because the data is the same. The tagging is only for storing in database. But thats my opinion.
The main problem from 3 and more ways over each other you can feel only a little bit an the example building, because there are only 3 Ways over each other. But if you want to change some think you have to click through all ways.If you think about 10 levels of the building there maybe 10 ways and if you want to change something in the 1 and later in 5 floor its not funny.

Last edited by viw (2011-11-28 18:37:21)

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#12 2011-11-29 13:53:23

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

Re: I need help with 3dr

If you want to understand what I mean with you have to cut the way in many parts if only one thing change you can see here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.09 … 8&layers=M
The street "Burgsdorffstraße" are 5 parts between "Reichenberger Straße" and "Großenhainer Straße"
The first part is with no stoping at both sites an 50 km/h maxspeed. The secound part has no stopping left and parking on right site with my speed 50. Than no parking left and no stoping right and later parking right and no parking left each with 50 km/h maxspeed. And the last part is because the maxspeed change to 30km/h.
If you want to have a wheelchairrouting on this street you have to make at least 5 parts for every lowering of kerb at one site. If you make it not verry exact this means for the Street between "Reichenberger Straße" and "Wahnsdorfer Straße" 10 more parts. Only for the right value of the height of the kerb.
I think for normal users this is not understandable.

In 3D can get the same problem. If we think about at correst texture for walls and roofs. Maybe there is a wall with only glass(window). Thats not realy the same for each wall. At the first building the window can be interruptet every 1 m and the secound are every 1.5 m. If you take the same texture its not realy the building you expect. So you maybe take texture of glas and put the texture of metal over them.

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#13 2011-12-03 21:50:42

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

About ways on ways, I think the problem with selection is caused by editor. It would be nice if after selecting  node I could see all ways with using that node. The same as I can see all relations on node. In josm you can always use middle button and ctrl key but I agree that is not comfortable. I don't like idea of replacing all ways with relations mostly because I can't see connection between nodes. It is problem of editor, and for now I don't think that tagging using relations is good idea.

You say about splitting ways, but if we want more complex map we need to add more data. So using relation only hide the problem until someone add to editor style witch render this relations …

To hide fence from rendering in 2d map I suggests use tag barrier:part=fence same as for buildings.
To not repeat ways many times for balcony in the same place I suggests use cloning relation, something like this:

relation:
type=clone:height
repeat=3 – how many times repeat
every=2 m – how far move next repeated part
offset=2 m – if  there is need to start repeat after some offset

as children of relation you can add way with tags:
barrier:part=fence or building:part=yes

And result:
cloneheight.th.png


Only good think I see about relation of nodes is possibility to assign height in relation role field. So we can do this:

relationway3d.th.png

relation:
type=way:3d
barrier=fence

and nodes with role
node 1 role=0
node 2,3,4 role=2

Example file



Viw:
How is going with textures wink

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#14 2011-12-04 11:53:40

viw
Member
Registered: 2010-05-15
Posts: 2,623

Re: I need help with 3dr

kendzi wrote:

Viw:
How is going with textures wink

I'm not sure what I have to do. Here you can see two exampels:
http://vkw.bplaced.net/osm/test1.JPG
http://vkw.bplaced.net/osm/test2.jpg

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#15 2011-12-04 12:30:07

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

Cloning relation we can use to add windows to buildings. The same relation as before but as children are nodes width tag building=windows or building=entrance

You can add to node building=windows or building=entrance  tags height and min_height.

And the result:

windowst.th.png

windows2.th.png

I will add later cloning relation which use building levels. Something like this:

type=clone:level
from=2    - starting level
to=10    - end level

and as children nodes width  building=windows or building=entrance or buildin:part=yes

Example file

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#16 2013-02-11 23:17:46

things-change
Member
Registered: 2011-10-27
Posts: 351

Re: I need help with 3dr


Hy, i tried this file to learn about the clone:height relation.

but it doesn't work, the building looks like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fdea0noeg6lpt … t_test.png

no clones were done.

i'm working with the latest josm (5697) and loaded the kendzi3d plugin directly from the plugin-dialog in josm, on a macbook pro.

anyone an idea?

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#17 2013-02-12 22:46:25

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

It seems that my last changes broke down clone:height relation. I will investigate it shortly.

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#18 2013-02-19 20:34:19

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

things-change wrote:

Hy, i tried this file to learn about the clone:height relation.

Clone:height relation is fixed in v166. I updated example. Please think of this relation more as suggestions. If you have any ideas join to discussion here.

Last edited by kendzi (2013-02-20 13:37:11)

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#19 2013-02-20 08:14:30

things-change
Member
Registered: 2011-10-27
Posts: 351

Re: I need help with 3dr

Thank you, great. I will check this if i have the time. In the next few days i won't.

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#20 2013-02-21 15:52:19

things-change
Member
Registered: 2011-10-27
Posts: 351

Re: I need help with 3dr

Still won't work. Now i've got 3 windows on the building, at the right place at the balcony. But only one time. The balcony, windows and fence are not cloned.

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#21 2013-02-21 18:48:56

kendzi
Member
Registered: 2008-08-20
Posts: 250

Re: I need help with 3dr

things-change wrote:

Still won't work. Now i've got 3 windows on the building, at the right place at the balcony. But only one time. The balcony, windows and fence are not cloned.

Make sure that you using v166. You can check version by: Menu>Edit>Preferences>Plugin Tab>Search for: kendzi3d
You should have text kendzi3d (local: 166)

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#22 2013-02-21 21:03:27

things-change
Member
Registered: 2011-10-27
Posts: 351

Re: I need help with 3dr

Ok, works fine, i missunderstood before. I just tested the new example, but i didn't update the plugin.
Thanks.

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