WikiMapia has several.
With such details, that the Rasar can check for Pilim BaKane in the morning drill
WikiMapia also clearly marks some installations that are not “clearly marked on the road with signposts”, if you know what I mean…
I believe that this is an uphill battle, as I think that some of the already existing military features in OSM were not added by Israelis.
It will be hard to follow and delete any new additions.
Not to mention the already mentioned history feature of OSM…
I thing people with bad behaviours doesn’t need to look at the map to know where the targets are…
You know, russia had “fake” maps with unexisting towns and without existings… but americans knows what is in the field.
satellite immagery of Israel is easy to find on Google maps…
Keep in mind, that shopping malls should probably also be removed, in order to make the life of a terrorist a little worse - they would have to look at other less known map sites
I say:
don’t map military related features. For Israeli citizens that might be illegal. Don’t ask your friends abroad to map it for you… that might also be illegal.
Don’t delete accurate license-compatible information, that is a misuse of OSM.
The problem is small, the world is changing, that information is freely available from other places on the net.
Hi,
I’m a little new to OSM. I’m mapping Yokne’am Ilit, and I mapped today two public war shelters. It occurred to me that it might fall under the definition of military area (the most relevant tag I found was military=bunker), although they are used only by civilians. I wanted to ask if you think such places should be mapped.
I don’t think mapping such places is against the local law, but I am no expert. Personally, I would map them.
But military=bunker doesn’t seem right, as the shelters are for civilians (if I understood correctly).
I was thinking about amenity=shelter, but that is used for shelter from weather while hiking or similar. Someone mentioned bomb shelters towards the end of the discussion page, but that did not evolve. Care to revive that on the wiki, maybe propose shelter=*, or amenity=emergency_shelter?
I think that a shelter shouldn’t be critical at all for the home land security and that those things are important for a detailed map.
So you are welcome to post as many as you wish
As some of you noticed, I was responsible for deletion of almost all of the military areas in the map of Israel. I didn’t felt good with deleting things that others were working on them, and I feel sorry about it. But, I felt a greater commitment to our country and it’s security matters, so I made this step, even i did’nt felt good with it.
I must tell you that Palestinian Activists from the terror organizations did used OSM for their goals.
I know it clealy becuase i’m working with some of those, so plese be aware of your edits.
Many thanks to Mr_Israel for notifying me about this discussion!
If adding these nodes will simplify navigation (say for a mother who wants to pick up her son coming home for the weekend), then they should be added. Not having them on purpose to my point of view (I am no expert, though) doesn’t contribute anything to the security of our country.
Note that wikipedia has info on many IDF military bases including their location (even exact coordinates).
@Wikipod, just out of interest - can you point to the law you mentioned in your diary? Still, law or not, it seems ridiculous that revealing the location of HaKirya or HaShalishut is a crime.
I had my work in oPT deleted twice by user Wikipod. Pls, can anybody quote legal references to justify such deletion activity? It should be promptly inserted in OSM wiki, to avoid wasting users time.
It should be safe to assume that firing zones appearing on the official GovMap are safe to depict (without copying) in OSM. Revealing the location of other military bases may be illegal for Israeli citizens, although most are indicated by signs on the ground.
My work was also deleted by Wikipod. I would like to avoid a dispute or an edit war, as this behavior is considered to be a form of Vandalism. Yet no one, including Wikipod, has provided any justification, in either OSM policy or Israeli law, for such actions.
Deleting anything without informing the other person or letting him first know about a “mistake” is done should never happen.
In this case we should ask Wikipod to improve communication
Military areas
As all of us know of the security problems we have, I would ask to keep the rule up: “No military elements in OSM Israel”
Beside, that its may not allowed by Israeli law, we should try not to tag things that could harm ourself like bunkers, bases etc.
No matter if the data is available at govmap, gmaps, waze etc. we can have our own rules.
We decided together back in those days that we don’t want to map military elements and that those things should be deleted.
If we now decide differently Wikipod will probably not delete anymore. So don’t blame him only.
I certainly think firing zones should be included. Entering those without prior authorization is dangerous to hikers, bikers and off-road drivers. This is publicly available info on official unclassified government maps and there is no reason in the world to suppress it. Let’s bring this up for a vote.
Military bases are a different subject and should remain off the map.
Do you guys realize how many and how large the areas designated as “firing zone” are in Israel ?
I’m holding a 250,000 aviation (south cvfr) map right now, and I can tell you that most of the Negev is one big firing zone. In maps of this scale and purpose I can understand the importance of such markings, but for a TOPO maps ?! With all due respect to tracks, paths etc’, navigation is based on topography before anything else. Rendering vast areas as firing zones will only make the map much less readable and will become worse as more details are added.
Besides, if it’s a safety issue, I don’t know of a firing zone that don’t have warning signs and every off road track being published – be it on the internet or books – tells you whether the suggested route is going through a firing zone or not.
So, my vote is NO…EXCEPT maybe …there are several military \ classified areas that are closed to the public regardless of what day of the week it is.
Than again, such places are always surrounded by fences’ walls and what not, so even that may be unnecessary .
You keep referring to OSM data as if it is identical to the Israel Hiking Map or collected for this sole purpose. If firing zones are depicted or not, and how invasive the marking on the map is, are questions that should be answered by the specific rendering. If Zeev and Harel so choose it can be disregarded altogether or marked with a thin red line surrounding the area; a line that won’t interfere with navigation at all. Please note that the Samash map from the Nature Preservation Society also shows firing zones (in light pink).
Apologies, you’re right :/, I keep mixing up the two maps. Perhaps we need a sub-forum for the IHM ? Just a thought.
Anyway, I still believe it’s an unnecessary addition, especially in the way it is rendered at the moment.
