public transportation in Israel

Since we have many oneway railway lines (i.e. double tracks) and railway stations should be a node on a railway line,
then maybe it would be better to have only one relation per “route” (e.g. Nahariya-Modiin) and add both lines to it.

It might also be a good time to add oneway=yes wherever there are oneway lines (e.g. along TelAviv-Haifa)

talkat.

Hmm… I have just came to Dimona => Be’er Sheva route woundering who added it :slight_smile:

++++++++++++++UPDATED ++++++++++++++++++

Regarding the relations:
I have checked several trainstations in Germany realizing that they are using two relations for trains and just one releation for public trains inside of the city.
In UK they are mostly just using one relation. So we can define it the way we want it to be and add it here : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Train_routes

We just have 7 routes, this would mean we talking about 14 releations, what is not a lot for a whole country.
Of course this makes more work for us but in this case we can define the “from” and “to” correctly.

@talkat: I don’t think we need oneway=yes on train routes. I think that the “forward” definition should be enough and is also rendered like a oneway on openbusmap.org.
Example: http://www.openbusmap.org/?zoom=16&lat=32.01171&lon=34.8338&layers=BT

I will stop the mapping for now till we decide how to map it equaly.

Here is something to read about routes (I can’t find a answer on our question):
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route

Must admit - I chose the easiest one :slight_smile:

This page states that for stops, “The order of the members in the relation should identical to the order in the timetable.” When I look at the Modi’in/Nahariyya route relation, I see unordered stops (Pa’atei Modi’in is between Tel Aviv Center and Atlit, etc). Does this mean their order in the relation in not correct?

Ok… here we go:

The actual Oxomoa/Public transport schema says:
“Each direction or variant of a route is represented by a separate relation.”
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/Public_transport_schema

You can find here the full description:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport#Route_direction.2Fvariant

Additional to that, there has to be a “Route master”:
“The route master is a relation that contains all the direction and variant routes and the information that belongs to the whole service.”

Anybody against the Oxomoa schema?

@adrukh: Of course it can happen that I missed a stop and added them later, but I hope its not a issue.
But if I understand the websites correctly you are right that they should be defined in a order.

So I don’t have a answer if we should change them or not.

Current Status:

ALL Finished

All of them having a route_master and can be identified to be just one line.

Jerusalem Malha => Tel Aviv Center Savidor (1660971) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660971
Tel Aviv Center Savidor => Jerusalem Malha (1660972) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660972

Hod HaSharon- Sokolov => Rishon LeTsiyyon HaRishonim (1660380) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660380
Rishon LeTsiyyon HaRishonim => Hod HaSharon- Sokolov (1660381) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660381

Binyamina => Ashkelon (1659773) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659773
Ashkelon => Binyamina (1659774) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659774

Nahariyya => Be’er Sheva (1659746) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659746
Be’er Sheva => Nahariyya (1659747) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659747

Modi’in => Nahariyya (1659560) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659560
Nahariyya => Modi’in (1659559) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659559

Haifa => Kiryat Motzkin (1659754) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659754
Kiryat Motzkin => Haifa (1659755) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659755

Dimona => Be’er Sheva (1660319) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660319
Be’er Sheva => Dimona (1660995) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660995

I’ll do a report for a wiki list page.
Any objections?

talkat.

what do you mean with objections?

It was kind of a joke. :slight_smile:

I meant - Instaed of this info buried in the forum, it will be in the wiki, with links from Israel’s wiki page.
Just like the forests list in the wiki.

It will also make it searchable by google, etc.

talkat.

nothing against jokes :slight_smile:

Do you think we should cooperate with Wikipedia in this topic instead of building a separated wiki for that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Railways

They have already a list of all train stations in there.

If anything, then as a link in wikipedia, under “See Also”, or “External links”

In my mind, the two wikis are complementary.

talkat.

I found another website showing interesting details like public transportation for Israel:
http://dev.openstreetbrowser.org/

It is very updated and very good if you would like to add bus or tram ways and check if everything is connected.
I found several small and big mistakes in the train routes and fixed them with that tool.

Turns out there are “stray trains”, following routes not mentioned on www.rail.co.il! :slight_smile:
For example, every morning you can catch a train from Modi’in straight to Hod Hasharon, without changing trains in Tel Aviv… 90% of the time during a day you will need to change trains, but not 100%.

Should such routes also be defined as separate relations?

If we add those routes… they would have to have seperated relations.

But when adding those kind of routes there needs to be a way to separate those routes.
Currently I’m using color names as reference number. But there has to be some kind of official route number.
Would be great if somebody could do a small research in hebrew for that.

I’m not sure that you should create a route for every variation, especially these early-morning/late-at-night samples.

As long as there’s a route from Modiin to Tel Aviv, and another one from Tel Aviv to Hod HaSharon, means that a routing software could create a route to navigate by.

Suppose someone sees this straight route from Modiin to Hod HaSharon, and would like to use it - They will be a bit disappointed…

talkat.

@Talkat: I disagree with you.
Of course they would be disappointed, but if you try to drive on Shabat with a bus you will be disappointed, too.
The same goes for night bus lines that are not driving the same route in the same speed daytime.

Before using OSM to route you through the country you will need a additional service, saying from when to when the routes can be used.

PS: I found even more website covering the public transport of Israel and added them in the first post.

Night busses are not the same.
Usually they even have their own (ref) number.

If we add hours-of-operation, then I would feel better about these only-in-the-morning routes.

talkat.

Done.

talkat.

Is it also possible to add more information about those train routes to the wiki page?

PS: Can you please link the names of the routes to the relation, so we will have more data connected.

Cute that wikipedia template… :slight_smile:

There’s a link on the relation id.
Note that there are small links next to it.
They let you analyze the relation in more detail.

Clicking on the small “a” you get the Relation Analyzer.
There you can see the length of the route, and even download gpx or kml files.

Clicking on the small “r” links to the Route Analyzer,
with similar data, and a visualization of the segments.

talkat.