Mapping Mountainbike Features

This is true for routing navigation software, which I use when driving my car. On a bike, navigation is different - I have a statically rendered map (trails and POIs), and I navigate by my position only. There is no indication like ‘turn left in 200m’. The best case is ‘you are X away from the waypoint you are trying to get to, in this general direction (shown by an arrow)’. This is what I meant when I said that “the concept of routing is more loose” when riding a bike, hiking, etc. And this is why having a POI indicating the ‘right end’ of a single is helpful.

The entry point to a single is, in my opinion:

  1. An easily accessible point on the single by nearby singles / tracks.
  2. A point from where I can ride along the single in a generally downward direction

Thus, a single can have a few ‘entry points’, even if it can be climbed in the ‘opposite’ direction. So, oneway=yes does not seem fitting…

I was thinking more about relation between a set of POIs and a single, not a relation between parts of a single.

For simplicity let’s look at Garmin. It has 2 models of navigating:

  1. Follow a route, or Follow Road. (you can follow a route in off-road mode, but then it’s like following a track as in model 2 below)
  2. Follow a track, or Don’t Follow Road, or as the craw flies.

Each model has its advantages and drawbacks.

If you use routing (follow-road) then the gps will navigate you like an on-road car gps will, telling you “turn right in 50 meters”, “bear left”, etc. until you reach your destination.

If you use a track (off-road, or as the craw flies) then all discussion is irrelevant, and you have to prepare the track yourself beforehand.
If you are in some place, and you want the gps to take you to another location in off-road mode, then it will tell you the bearings, and that’s it, but that’s not why you bought a gps with routing capabilities, is it?..

Ok, fair enough.
Then why not use highway=trailhead, and when some other proposal was voted into the standard, just go over all these nodes, and replace them with the standard.
That shouldn’t be a problem for anyone with basic scripting capabilities.

You’ll need to add highway=trailhead to your style file, and typ file (if you use any)

p.s. Sometimes I prefer to ride my bike in a generally upward direction.
Although, I do admit that riding downward is a little easier, and can be fun in high speed… :slight_smile:

talkat.

You caught me here - I don’t use a Garmin device… My experience is second hand here, but I know that many people use navigators in off-road mode, and still would like to get the benefit of OSM.

Added a discussion on the wiki page, let’s see how that goes.

My first time here.
Can I use data from here to map bike trails in Yaar-HaMeginim?

Yes, but that will be like giving him a fish.
If you want to teach him how to catch a fish and cook the fish and have lunch every day,
then it would be best to contact that user, and ask him to upload their gps tracks to OSM as well.
(Best would be if he could also edit them, and he would know best which part is a track, and which is a path)

I know him, and there’s a good chance he would agree, especially if you would tell him about the velik map that is updated on a daily basis.
His contact details are easy to find. Just follow the links to his gpsies user, then twitter, then blog, and from there you can send him a private message in Tapuz… :slight_smile:

talkat.

You are mistaking me for a devoted OSM freak which I am not. In fact I don’t own a GPS and have never even uploaded a track or edited a map.
So I’m not the devoted evangelist you’re looking for. If you know the guy, you’re in a better position to do it than I am. He posted many tracks to GPSies.
Beyond the question of that particular MTB+GPS user which I’m supposed to track down, is it OK, license-wise, to upload peoples tracks from GPSies without their permission?

Thanks

I’m sorry, I fail to see your reasoning.
You only want one fish?
Don’t you want to have a good fish (one that gets better every day with new tracks uploaded) every day?

talkat.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have the whole fishery.
I’m just saying that as someone who’s just heard about OSM last week and never uploaded anything it would be pathetic if I try to evangelize.
Actually, if you really want to get loads of MTB tracks uploaded you should try promoting cycleOSM on the groopy and tapuz forums. Loads of tracks there. You could show them how to upload to Garmin/android phones/Iphone, something I never attempted.

Ok, I see what you mean.

How about approaching him and asking whether you could use the track he uploaded to gpsies.
Just tell him that you want to upload it onto OpenStreetMap (the whole name, he might not know “OSM”…)
If he “bites” and asks any questions, refer him to the main web site, and here. :slight_smile:

talkat.

OK, I’ll do that.
Found him on facebook.
Thx

It’s the same as his gpsies username. :slight_smile:

As for that specific gps track of his:
It has singles, but not the doubles in the area, and these doubles are not yet in OSM.
So following this particular track will be like navigating in the dark, without orientation of the doubles.

talkat.

Thanks,

As you suggested, he responded favorably.

The doubles are visible from the Satellite images - is that considered good enough? I know the area well and can annotate it (if that is what it’s called). I also have the Shvilnet paper map as a reference.
I’m not aware of the legal aspects, though. I imagine you could consult a map but not trace it, right?
Otherwise I can go there and map it myself when that becomes an option.

Cheers.
Would he start uploading his gps tracks to OSM as well?

If you can see the doubles from the yahoo images (something like 15m/pixel) then it’s good enough.
Otherwise, they need to be traced somehow.

Using Shvilnet when you edit OSM is a no-no.
However, if you were riding the area using Shvilnet many times, to a degree that you know he area by heart, then it’s ok (to use your knowledge that started from Shvilnet a long time ago…)

Getting a gps track of a way is best, but in the meantime you can do some “artistic sketch” and add a fixme tag.

talkat.

I see.
If I have a free satellite image of an area, at higher resolution than these lousy Yahoo images, say like this one from NASA:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Tel_Aviv_from_space.JPG
Is there an OSM editor in which I can paste and align it to trace the double tracks?

Thanks

How about using Google satellite Imagery in Josm. Is that possible?

If the image’s license allows you to do that, you can use either the PicLayer or WMSPlugin plugins.

talkat.

The google license forbids such usage of their satellite imagery.

talkat.

The NASA data is of course absolutely free (product of the US Federal Government) and would allow all derivate usage.
It would require more elaborate alignment though, because it’s not an orthophoto.
I suppose if some criminal used the Google satellite data (not the maps) and traced it, there would be no way to prove it.

OK,
Our friend from GPSies now submits all his past tracks to OSM.
see his posts here
This is easily done from the GPSies site with a dedicated button (I guess they feel indebted because they use Cycle-OSM as one of their maps).
Perhaps you could contact him about notation and editing as I am clueless.

That’s cool! :slight_smile:
I didn’t know it can be done from gpsies. I guess that would make things eaier for gpsies users.

I don’t know him personally, just know of him.
He has a blog that lists various trips, and he’s an active Tapuz member.

Hopefully, he’ll “bite” and edit as well.
But uploading the tracks is a very good start, as it adds to how good we can trace ways.

talkat.