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#1 2020-04-07 20:01:54

Brian de Ford
Member
From: Cardigan, Ceredigion, UK
Registered: 2017-08-30
Posts: 138

Standard carto not updating?

Is it just me, or is standard carto not updating today (2020-04-07)?  Ir had a few hiccoughs yesterday, but got over them.  Today I made an update 6 hours ago but it's not shown up yet.  That update has shown up on the humanitarian layer, as have a few I did an hour ago.  Nothing on the standard layer.

I'm in the UK, if that lets somebody guess which server is giving me stale tiles.

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#2 2020-04-07 20:53:19

goedegazelle
Member
Registered: 2017-07-19
Posts: 608

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Same in NL. This morning one of my edits was rendered at zoom level 19, everything after that has not been updated.

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#3 2020-04-08 12:41:35

Kovoschiz
Member
Registered: 2019-10-06
Posts: 46

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Same in East Asia for the past few days.

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#4 2020-04-08 13:06:53

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: Standard carto not updating?

There's an ongoing process to reduce access to freeloaders - see e.g. https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/pull/294 et al.

In the short term I'd suggest using a different tile layer - either one of the other 3 at osm.org or somewhere else altogether.

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#5 2020-04-08 13:26:46

Brian de Ford
Member
From: Cardigan, Ceredigion, UK
Registered: 2017-08-30
Posts: 138

Re: Standard carto not updating?

SomeoneElse wrote:

There's an ongoing process to reduce access to freeloaders - see e.g. https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/pull/294 et al.

Ummm, if I understand the diffs correctly (probably not), the new blocks shouldn't affect me.  I don't match the blocked domains and my user-agent doesn't identify as any of the blocked ones.

SomeoneElse wrote:

In the short term I'd suggest using a different tile layer - either one of the other 3 at osm.org or somewhere else altogether.

Only Humanitarian is updated relatively frequently (maybe hourly or so).  And even that isn't updating all the zooms at the same frequency - a change I made 15 hours ago is showing up at z=18 but not z=19.

Also, I'm not blocked from seeing any tiles (which I think your github issue referred to).  What's going astray seems to be tile generation in response to db changes.  Stale tiles rather than no tiles.

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#6 2020-04-08 13:52:20

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Brian de Ford wrote:

Ummm, if I understand the diffs correctly (probably not), the new blocks shouldn't affect me.  I don't match the blocked domains and my user-agent doesn't identify as any of the blocked ones.

Sorry - I should have been clearer.  The blocks that are being introduced are enforcing the existing tile usage policy.  The idea is that with fewer people abusing the tile servers there will be more capacity available for people who aren't abusing it and are using it exactly for what it was designed to be used for, like you.

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#7 2020-04-08 14:13:02

Brian de Ford
Member
From: Cardigan, Ceredigion, UK
Registered: 2017-08-30
Posts: 138

Re: Standard carto not updating?

SomeoneElse wrote:

Sorry - I should have been clearer.  The blocks that are being introduced are enforcing the existing tile usage policy.  The idea is that with fewer people abusing the tile servers there will be more capacity available for people who aren't abusing it and are using it exactly for what it was designed to be used for, like you.

And it's working.  It's serving me stale tiles much faster than it used to. big_smile

More seriously, it looks like the problem is real and not something I'm imagining.  I'm now wondering if it's being worked on or if the server admins are blissfully unaware.

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#8 2020-04-09 07:35:03

solenoid jam
Member
Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 394

Re: Standard carto not updating?

prblm

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#9 2020-04-09 17:59:50

goedegazelle
Member
Registered: 2017-07-19
Posts: 608

Re: Standard carto not updating?

The renderer was already producing strange results before the 'lockdown' happened.

Let's say that I made edits A through D and pressed Ctrl-F5 in between. It could look like this:

A_new
A_old - B_new
A_new - B_old - C_new
A_old - B_new - C_old - D_new

It is not surpising if this takes longer to process. wink

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#10 2020-04-10 05:29:57

EricJRW
Member
Registered: 2020-04-10
Posts: 6

Re: Standard carto not updating?

So will (my|the) edits ever be added? I'm new, made a few simple changes via iD. Now I don't know what to do, other than take the advice above. Thank you!

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#11 2020-04-10 11:20:18

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: Standard carto not updating?

EricJRW wrote:

So will (my|the) edits ever be added? I'm new, made a few simple changes via iD. Now I don't know what to do, other than take the advice above. Thank you!

Yes, they already have been.  Other maps that can apply updates quicker will show them before the "standard" tiles at openstreetmap.org will.  If you want to be sure that things are "really there" either go into the editor again or zoom right in and click the "data" tickbox at the right-hand-side of openstreetmap.org.  You'll see blue lines corresponding to what you have added.  Make sure you turn "data" off before zooming out, though.

More generally, if anyone who wants to see an updated map says where in the world they are, people may be able to recommend a map that will be updated for that area.  There's a long list at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lis … d_services.

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#12 2020-04-10 11:34:49

Cebderby
Member
Registered: 2017-06-17
Posts: 8

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Seeing the same thing.  Just tried manually marking a tile as needing re-rendering and it promptly got updated (that single tile at a zoom level).

So I wonder if it's the process that works out which tiles need to be re-rendered from each edit that has stopped for the last 2-3 days, and the actual re-rendering process is just sitting there happily doing nothing.

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#13 2020-04-10 12:47:05

goedegazelle
Member
Registered: 2017-07-19
Posts: 608

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Cebderby wrote:

Just tried manually marking a tile as needing re-rendering and it promptly got updated (that single tile at a zoom level).

How can that be done?

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#14 2020-04-10 13:19:00

Nachtspazz
Member
Registered: 2020-04-10
Posts: 2

Re: Standard carto not updating?

how-to-trigger-a-repaint-for-a-specific-osm-map-tile:
https://help.openstreetmap.org/question … m-map-tile

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#15 2020-04-10 14:29:48

Cebderby
Member
Registered: 2017-06-17
Posts: 8

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Think the right-click action has been overridden on openstreetmap.org to give a context menu since those instructions. 

The commands will vary between browsers, for me on Firefox (on Linux), I can view the map at the required location and zoom level, then select from the browser menu: Tools-Page Info. 

In the box that appears, switch to the Media tab, and scroll through the entries with type=Image of the form https://S.tile.openstreetmap.org/Z/X/Y.png (where S is one of the tile servers a,b or c, Z is the zoom level, X+Y are position indexes.

Once you have a tile that you know is out of date, right-click + Copy the URL, paste into a new tab on your browser and press enter if required.  You should see the single tile with this URL.  Now edit the URL to add "/dirty" on the end, no spaces or quotes so that it ends .png/dirty  and press enter.  The screen display should change to show the message "Tile submitted for rendering".  You can close this tab, and the Page Info panel.  Wait a bit and refresh the map - noting this only applies to the single zoom level tile you selected.

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#16 2020-04-10 14:46:11

Casey_boy
Member
Registered: 2019-07-14
Posts: 3

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Yep, several tiles I've editted days ago are still not rendering the updates (and it's not a cache issue - I've used multiple devices and also cleared cache).

Edit: UK

Last edited by Casey_boy (2020-04-10 14:52:40)

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#17 2020-04-10 17:43:45

Viajero Perdido
Member
Registered: 2016-10-13
Posts: 121

Re: Standard carto not updating?

The /dirty trick - exactly as described in #15 - hasn't worked for me in a while.  I've even tried 3x for a., b., and c.tile.etc/dirty, then wait, then force a reload.  Nope.  Guess it just takes patience.

Lately I'm surprised to see the cycle map updating before the standard carto.  Never thought I'd see that.  smile

Last edited by Viajero Perdido (2020-04-10 17:48:37)

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#18 2020-04-10 18:34:58

EricJRW
Member
Registered: 2020-04-10
Posts: 6

Re: Standard carto not updating?

@Cebderby, I found your post very interesting.
I am on a Windows machine. I have Chrome and Edge installed. After reading your post, I installed FF.
For the life of me, I cannot find a "Tools" menu!
I scoured the the "three bars" menu, with no luck.
Wonder if you, or someone else, would know how to get tile  info on a Windows machine.
Thank you in advance, Eric

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#19 2020-04-10 19:48:44

BikePC
Member
From: Zoetermeer NL
Registered: 2010-06-09
Posts: 567

Re: Standard carto not updating?

In Firefox click the hamburger menu in the upper right corner,
select Customize... (paintbrush),
check the box 'Title bar' in the lower left corner.
Now you have the Title Bar in the uppermost row, among which is 'Tools'
Hope this helps you?


GPS: Garmin Edge 800 / Edge Touring Plus / Edge Explore

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#20 2020-04-10 19:49:21

Viajero Perdido
Member
Registered: 2016-10-13
Posts: 121

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Can't find "Tools"?  No worries.

Since you've installed FireFox...  On the OSM map page in FF, right-click a blank part of the page, eg left of "GPS Traces".  From that menu, select View Page Info.

Then follow instructions in #15.  But as I've noted, it may not produce results.  Good luck.

Last edited by Viajero Perdido (2020-04-10 19:51:51)

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#21 2020-04-10 19:51:16

Cebderby
Member
Registered: 2017-06-17
Posts: 8

Re: Standard carto not updating?

@EricJRW, try right-click in the top area of the browser window eg in the blank space alongside the tab(s) and '+'.  On that right-click menu, you may have the option to enable "Menu Bar", which contains the 'traditional' menu items File,Edit,View,History,Bookmarks,Tools,Help.

Normally this /dirty trick does little as slow updates are more usually the re-render process getting behind on one or more of the a. b. or c. tile servers, so the tiles are already marked and in a backlog queue.  In conjunction with the corresponding browser caches this means there are 6 sources each tile (at each zoom) can come from, which can result in the patchy and or apparently backwards updating sometimes experienced.  Only times I've used it normally are to encourage an update of an (normally infrequent) zoom 13 tile eg if a big road has been opened or a large construction site added or similar.

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#22 2020-04-10 22:17:02

EricJRW
Member
Registered: 2020-04-10
Posts: 6

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Thank you all!
Tried @BikePC 's idea. Didn't work.
Got to Viajero Perdido, and that worked...
Which is also what @Cebderby suggested!

So now I know how to find tiles! Yay!

Going to try to force an update...

But thank you all.

Learning something new is such fun!

Thank you. Going to try

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#23 2020-04-11 19:54:38

Nachtspazz
Member
Registered: 2020-04-10
Posts: 2

Re: Standard carto not updating?

I use http://openstreetmap.gryph.de/bigmap.html to display the map. Each tile is then directly accessible (right click - view image in Firefox). And then I just append "/dirty".

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#24 2020-07-12 09:58:55

Cebderby
Member
Registered: 2017-06-17
Posts: 8

Re: Standard carto not updating?

May be happening again at the moment.

Cebderby wrote:

Just tried manually marking a tile as needing re-rendering and it promptly got updated (that single tile at a zoom level).

So I wonder if it's the process that works out which tiles need to be re-rendered from each edit that has stopped for the last 2-3 days, and the actual re-rendering process is just sitting there happily doing nothing.

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#25 2020-07-14 16:36:36

Kars
Member
From: Hengelo
Registered: 2016-07-22
Posts: 157

Re: Standard carto not updating?

Pretty sure something is wrong. This changeset which was made 2 days ago is only showing up at zoom level 13.

Last edited by Kars (2020-07-14 16:37:27)

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