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#1 2020-02-29 07:15:07

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Why o why series..

smh...

PyStqtr.png


p/s new imgurian.

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#2 2020-02-29 20:51:11

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 981

Re: Why o why series..

Nothing unusual. Seeing such strange ways during almost every mapping session in Thailand.
Also quite common: a road does not end at a junction, but joins the other road shortly after the junction.

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#3 2020-03-01 05:13:31

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

wait till you zoom in. Tertiary road going through unpaved tracks in the boonies, going around single houses, and through imaginary paths among shrubs. It is highly unusual in Malaysia.

Our strange mappings usually done by non-locals, or inadequately informed mapping sessions at universities. neutral

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#4 2020-03-15 05:10:12

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

NvDiqd1.png

JKKK punya kerja big_smile

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#5 2020-03-15 06:11:49

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

TuIi4i1.jpg

banyak kawasan luar bandar nak kena check camni.

Khuatir juga kalau-kalau banyak jalan balak di sabah sarawak disalah kategori pulak. Niaya orang..

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#6 2020-03-15 17:09:20

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 981

Re: Why o why series..

Did you also check with a different background imagery? Sometimes newer images may show roads where older imagery lacked them.
Or did you check who were the contributors, e.g. facebook or kart, or new users? In case of the former ones: is there an "import=yes" tag?

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#7 2020-03-16 02:56:29

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

Did you also check with a different background imagery? Sometimes newer images may show roads where older imagery lacked them.
Or did you check who were the contributors, e.g. facebook or kart, or new users? In case of the former ones: is there an "import=yes" tag?

I did. I loaded all imageries at once and remove the older layers and kept the the most recent and pretty ones. This on is from one of those IRM users. I think it's the mistaken tendency to assume what's not there. I mean, I'll leave the trace alone if it says source = personal survey or something. However knowing that this area is way out there in the middle of Pahang, it is safe to assume that this was traced remotely.

A little understanding of land plots and road easement (to get an access road) could also help.

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#8 2020-03-16 08:30:06

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 261
Website

Re: Why o why series..

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

is there an "import=yes" tag?

Apparently, that's not a thing. The IRM team merged my source=ground truth <month> key-value pairs on top of their mapping work, making things more bizarre. Gotta love it when this area had became the victim of remote mapping teams (between formerly Grab/GlobalLogic and now Facebook)... though there are uploaded GPS tracks along the major highway (from me), that were totally ignored. Because (outdated) imagery trumps all, even recent GPS tracks.

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#9 2020-03-16 19:33:09

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 981

Re: Why o why series..

Oh yeah, I know the "source" tag inheritance... When I change something, I normally remove the source tag, except I really used that source for my edits, too.

But what I meant above is as follows: facebook added "import=yes" to their imports, so it is easy to detect their work. Since I am more active in Thailand than in Malaysia (which was harder hit by facebook), that came very handy: when I create maps for Garmin or Osmand, I change all highway except track to "road" when that tag exists also. And that proved really useful when I was cycling thru the provinces of Thailand. I think I saw some facebook edits also near the border to Thailand in Perlis.

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#10 2020-03-30 06:16:38

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

aj7v6Z3.jpg

Guess which one is the original highway and which was added late last year? roll

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#11 2020-04-02 19:08:39

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 981

Re: Why o why series..

How long is that section of 4 lanes without physical barrier? If it's just a few 100 meters, so what. If it's longer, well, that should be changed.
On the other hand, it is often difficult to see the difference in aerial images. And some simple barriers can quickly be placed onto the road, or removed again - i.e. outdated data.

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#12 2020-04-03 05:04:27

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

How long is that section of 4 lanes without physical barrier? If it's just a few 100 meters, so what. If it's longer, well, that should be changed.
On the other hand, it is often difficult to see the difference in aerial images. And some simple barriers can quickly be placed onto the road, or removed again - i.e. outdated data.

I deleted that one because I can't be arsed to argue about everything (although it looks like I am arguing everything hehe). But I am keeping #IAmTired  tongue   lol

Actually, now that I think about it, perhaps I should just keep quiet. Do what I can do, silently, quietly in the background. There's no point engaging an army of paid mappers who are doing this 8 hour a day week in week out. It is Open after all, to them and to me ::evil grin::

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#13 2020-04-06 13:45:54

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

ZGmpoUW.png

So how is this supposed to work? You got landuse residential named Pekan Tanjung Malim, and also town node for Tanjung Malim. And who determines the boundary of that Pekan? We are not even talking about PBT/Majlis Daerah boundary yet.

When queried for sample address, Nominatim (with its own issues) just simply answered "the address is everywhere!" lol

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#14 2020-04-19 13:14:10

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

Sometimes a random check just surprises you. Copy coordinates in JOSM and just for fun, paste it in some map --> surprise, surprise! same position.

ibNyMxR.jpg

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#15 2020-04-19 16:15:42

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 261
Website

Re: Why o why series..

kucai wrote:

Sometimes a random check just surprises you. Copy coordinates in JOSM and just for fun, paste it in some map --> surprise, surprise! same position.

Ni kantoi terang-terangan ni.

Nasib baik la terperasan waktu PKP ni:

0c23ea4eff5634d2.png

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#16 2020-04-28 08:31:30

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

Apa kemungkinan 2 node berada pada jalan yang sama? Highway lalu atas rumah orang pulak tu.

Udah-udah le. Dengan grabnya, uitm mapathon nye, facebooknye, applenye. Haish.

XhfaOGc.jpg

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#17 2020-05-04 11:52:44

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

Do not assume. Always err on the safe side. Mapillary offer quite a lot of images to double check.
Another peculiar thing about this highway is that both sides of the road's history only started back to March 2020. A primary road only traced this year!
hmm

qqxPCJ9.jpg

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#18 2020-05-08 12:09:17

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

Why are people hell bent on making dual highways when there are none?


2JcMSup.jpg

Photos from Mapillary

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#19 2020-05-08 18:10:59

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 981

Re: Why o why series..

kucai wrote:

A primary road only traced this year!

Malaysia is developing quite well, isn't it? So you get new primary / trunk / motorway just every here and there.
big_smile
Can you see from the history of those roads if that's the work of a specific user / user group? In that case, send them a message / change set discussion.
Also: is the wiki good enough, in this case the description of a "physical barrier" being required for a dual carriage highway?

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#20 2020-05-09 02:17:50

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 261
Website

Re: Why o why series..

I'm speechless... these got tangled up with bus routes, so, uh...

Single_carriageway_mapped_incorrectly_as_dual_carriageways.png

Bernhard Hiller wrote:

Also: is the wiki good enough, in this case the description of a "physical barrier" being required for a dual carriage highway?

That's a good idea. I'll put it up later.

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#21 2020-05-09 04:05:02

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

It's not because of not knowing physical barrier. I assume it is the quick, mistaken conclusion that a solid double line seen from fresh imagery looks like a concrete barrier. (the area that I posted got better, crispier Esri than Maxar imagery)

Either that or trying to avoid the potentially messy bus route relations.

In that case, send them a message / change set discussion.

I don't put much hope in that, grab's indian contractors especially. That doesn't put other paid mappers off the hook either. neutral

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#22 2020-05-09 16:49:27

Zh9567
Member
Registered: 2020-03-25
Posts: 3

Re: Why o why series..

When I was making the bus routes in Ipoh, I found out that there are TONS of unnecessary double roads and road links. Most major roads are drawn separately for each direction, regardless that there are barriers or not, even a few main residential roads are doubled which seems unnecessary. Also there is a cross drawn on many junctions which is unnecessary (probably for smooth turn or something). The user(s) who made this seems to be inactive since MCO.

Some bus routes are affected when fixing all these road problems, but I will try to fix them if I have time, hope there is someone interested in mapping bus routes.

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#23 2020-05-10 05:16:16

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

There are people interested in doing bus routes, but how? Unless you are a local, you'd probably be getting info from copyrighted sources anyways.
I looked at Perak's bus routes yesterday (trying to repair those affected by double roads correction), and it lists only road/stop names which there really is no way of knowing since those stop names are not in OSM (yet).

For some other companies (like RapidKL used to be iirc), they just showed their routes on google map which we can't use anyways. We just don't have enough contributors willing to do the leg work due to time constraints, cost etc. I mean, I would love to go sightseeing on buses if they are being paid for! smile

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#24 2020-05-10 07:00:48

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 261
Website

Re: Why o why series..

It started when someone added a note that there was (were?) traffic light(s?) in a residential area around Jalan Taman Star, Ipoh. Thought it was a quick fix, however, it was an actual nightmare.

Residential highways at a cross junction; all split into double carriageways and generously traced ramps (why?); and totally made up turn restrictions (seriously? 20 of those?) involving probably all those highways.

Someone uploaded many OpenStreetCam photos in and out of the said junction. Probably the driver was frustrated to see changes reflected through the Grab app. Spaghetti routes, very likely.

Browsed to see edits made by the same user. I noped out totally, because I freaked out seeing excessive turn restrictions (and already any bus routes present). I rather not wipe those bus routes, because I usually am hastily deleting extra highways and/or associated turn restrictions (while cross checking with available street level photos). Sorry for that!

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#25 2020-05-13 12:18:58

kucai
Moderator
Registered: 2011-11-08
Posts: 268

Re: Why o why series..

I would like to thank the non-local mappers who helped map this. Not only they traced the roads, they also provided the street name.

LeOet7Y.jpg

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