You are not logged in.

#1 2019-09-14 20:10:37

Nicolas69
New Member
Registered: 2019-09-14
Posts: 2

Gate

Hello

I had a look to the OpenStreetMap at Riomaggiore-italy at N44,1004902 E9,7353871 that shows a gate and NO access.

When I download the map of italy from http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ this information is lost.
At this spot, I have a "point" with NO information.

So, I planed a treck passing this point which was in fact not possible...

Is it possible to keep this information of NO access in garmin map ?

Thanks
Nicolas

Offline

#2 2019-09-16 07:53:21

PHerison
Member
From: Rhein-Main
Registered: 2008-04-04
Posts: 1,686

Re: Gate

Hi and welcome to OSM and the forum

I assume you're referring to https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/286981481 ? My first idea was, that there have been recently changes to the node and the map-provider hadn't catch up yet, but the last edit (adding access=no) was a year ago, so oprnstreetmap.nl should have up-to-date data.

As OSM is just a database (the maps are just byproduct) you should contact your map-provider that his product needs improvement. You might also try maps from other providers: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM … n/Download which might have more accurate data.

Offline

#3 2019-09-16 14:02:55

ligfietser
Member
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,308
Website

Re: Gate

garmin.openstreetamp.nl uses the mkgmap defaults. There is a typfile in development so maye ask there (mkgnap-dev mailinglist) if they can add this extra info. At the moment you can only see if the routing will let you pass that gate or not. Access=no means it is closed for everyone.

Offline

#4 2019-09-22 15:10:07

Nicolas69
New Member
Registered: 2019-09-14
Posts: 2

Re: Gate

Hello,
Thank you for your reply;

BUT, as the type is NO access, Garmin shouldn't calculate a track passing this point. But it does !

Offline

#5 2019-09-24 06:00:32

ligfietser
Member
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,308
Website

Re: Gate

Does it route there? That is really wrong, as the path behind the gate is closed too for everyone.
It shouldnt route you over that path. Did you plan a route from Riomaggiore to Manarola or just force your Garmin to a point that is behind the gate on the closed footpath? And what map exactly did you test, the generic or the new style?

Offline

#6 2019-09-24 07:54:01

ligfietser
Member
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,308
Website

Re: Gate

If you plan a route to Manarola the access rules are respected:
barrier.jpg

You can see that point is a barrier if you use the mapnik TYP file that you can select when downloading the maps.
Without typ files, Garmin maps are just horrible.

If you navigate to a point on the path behind the gate, Garmin ignores the access rules. I don't know how this can be fixed.
On my Openfietsmap the gate remains closed. On the other hand, it makes a route from the other side, although the path is closed it still navigates to that point which is also wrong, but at least the gate is recognized:

OFM.jpg


Maybe one of the mgkmap developers will read this and can comment on this?

Last edited by ligfietser (2019-09-24 07:57:46)

Offline

#7 2019-09-24 08:43:37

ligfietser
Member
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,308
Website

Re: Gate

The routing might also be caused by this relation: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/ … 64/9.73066
This forbidden part is still part of the hiking route and thus Garmin thinks it is still accessible. Might be a fault in the default mkgmap styles or on OSM, what preference is valid, the hiking route or the tags on the members (=ways)?

Correction: in the default mkgmap the hiking routes are not defined, only on my Openfietsmap. I corrected this issue and the route now looks ok, you can try the routing of the Openfietsmap Lite in the next update. Issue that still remains is why the generic map routes through the gate.

Last edited by ligfietser (2019-09-24 09:19:00)

Offline

#8 2019-09-25 09:26:29

GerdP
Member
Registered: 2015-12-18
Posts: 1,507

Re: Gate

I think the gate is correctly ignored because it has no effect on routing. The problem is that Garmin allows to set a way point on a routable line with type 0x16 which doesn't allow any access. In my eyes this is an error in the Garmin software.
We may change the default style so that it doesn't add a routable line for such a way.

Offline

#9 2019-09-28 11:08:46

GerdP
Member
Registered: 2015-12-18
Posts: 1,507

Re: Gate

@ligfitser:

GerdP wrote:

We may change the default style so that it doesn't add a routable line for such a way.

I played with that option but I was not happy with the results. I tried two different implementations:
1) Don't add any line if the road is not accessible by any vehicle or pedestrian. This means the map doesn't contain any information about the road. This can be confusing when you are at a crossing with such a road, esp. at a roundabout (wrong number in the "take xth exit" hint)
and address search would also work less well (assuming that many service roads have access=private which is translated to access=no.
2) Add a (non-routable) line with type 0x180xx instead of the routable line (similar to the overlay lines for roundabouts). This will show a road on the map looking like a normal road but doesn't use it for routing, no matter what routing parameters are set. Not sure if a user will understand this better. Also the number at the roundabout would still be wrong and address search would also work less well.

I fear we cannot ask Garmin to improve their routing algo unless this problem also occurs with original Garmin maps. No idea how to test this.

Offline

#10 2019-09-28 15:46:28

ligfietser
Member
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 5,308
Website

Re: Gate

Thanks Gerd, for my bicycle map I use a non routable line for such paths with no or private access. I think wrong roundabouts and address navigation are not a bigger issue then routing via a non accessible road.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB