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#76 2018-10-28 14:13:06

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 244

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Hi Tom,
I think in all cases, I mentioned the Way Number.  it would be better if you viewed that in Potlatch, and took a look at the 3-4 aerials they presumably had to choose from, so as you can make a better opinion (and easier for me too smile )
The vegetation may have grown a little being the end of rainy season, but the gist of the type of way should come from using the mappers initiative as to the surroundings as well as just the road surface.
The aerials would intimate dirt, whereas now, its more like grass .... I don't care, just make it unpaved if in doubt.
In the overgrown ways, the aerials do show more of a dirt road than would appear now, and with the locked gates, well as you know they are not easy to spot, but we are taught not to connect ways unless we are SURE they connect.  If in doubt, leave it unconnected with a Fixme.... which of course , takes too much time for the "bang it in team" to do.
Best, Russ.

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#77 2018-10-28 15:31:52

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 244

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Want a quick laugh before bedtime - guess who drew half of the Chiang Rai old airport runway as a residential road ?
Good old Zvone at FB. lol
Changeset comment left to be ignored.
Road deleted.
zzzzzzzzz

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#78 2018-11-09 14:30:35

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 426
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

While I want to acknowledge that FB mappers have come a long way, in 'my area' this picture of residential street 525947499 sums up their contributions nicely: thumb-2048.jpg

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#79 2018-11-11 04:37:09

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 244

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Don't know about you all, but in line with the DWG advice, I have been relentlessly adding comments on FB changesets.
Guess how many replies  ?
One! 
Yes, a sweet little note from California saying sorry, they are improving, mapper no longer with us, learned from their lessons, blah, blah, blah.
Now the rest of my comments to the FB mappers must seem to have been a waste of typing.... I guess they getting fed up of us now, given their wonderful project is coming to and end.  I suppose my question today as to why dear Zvone has removed the unpaved tag from a canal service road, when its clear the way is still unpaved, will go unanswered.
I'm guessing Zvone has probably left them now, given her last edit was 2 months ago ?    Her wonderful Avatar of the Owl sums it up - she dont give a hoot any more.
OK chaps, we are on our own again ... lets automatically retag EVERY road marked as a FB import as highway=road, and slowly edit every one to its correct tag.
mad

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#80 2018-11-11 05:51:21

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 426
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

+1 !

I've had a little more feedback, but it looks like they are just reacting to the comments, fixing one item. I agree, this needs to be tackled at scale: either they go through all their edits, starting day one, or we need a scripted re-tag.

If the powers that be let this continue in the rest of the world, then OSM will have truly become FSM.

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#81 2018-11-13 06:43:23

AkuAnakTimur
Moderator
From: Kedah, Malaysia
Registered: 2013-09-12
Posts: 223
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Just found a diary entry from Jeff Underwood, published yesterday: So how does the Facebook's AI Assisted Road Import Process work?

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#82 2018-11-13 14:41:22

AlaskaDave
Member
From: Homer, Alaska ; Chiang Mai
Registered: 2013-09-21
Posts: 328
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

I just read through the diary entry: "So how does the Facebook's AI Assisted Road Import Process work?"

I must say, that methodology, while obviously not perfect, is still very impressive. I'm going to risk getting criticism from the dedicated mappers who have worked in Thailand for years and say that I think the FB team has made a huge contribution to our Thailand map. Yes, there have been problems and those will no doubt continue but overall they've added data that would have taken us years to do without their help. I have often passed over adding residentials to small towns just for lack of time and because there were always more important things to map. FB has added many, many uninteresting, boring-to-map sois to those towns. I wish there was a way to get them interested in mapping geographic features and aligning miserable PGS coastlines in Alaska!

My advice is to accept the fact that making mistakes is part of the learning process and to appreciate what Facebook has contributed to the overall project. You can all remember when the _only_ satellite imagery we had was Bing's.  Because of FB's deep pockets, we now we have several excellent overlays, some of which are so good that, with my experience with camping and fishing in Alaska, I can practically transport myself to the location.

Today I came across a node I had added to OSM in Alaska four years ago. I had named it and made a note but had forgotten to say what it was! Amenity, attraction, landuse? I would not make that same mistake today. FB mappers are paid to do a job. Some of those employees will rise to the occasion and do good work, others won't — to those latter people, it's just a job. But I'm in favor of following the old adage, "don't throw the baby out with the bath water." To my mind, mass reverting all their edits would be doing just that. There's definitely some bad stuff they added but there's also an awful lot of good.

Cheers,
Dave

Last edited by AlaskaDave (2018-11-13 15:14:12)

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#83 2018-11-13 14:54:09

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 426
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

I agree with you insofar as recent edits are concerned. But the older stuff is largely pollution at this point. While I would not want it deleted outright, re-tagging it as road or track is appropriate. The question is: where do we draw the line?

Where I live, here in Central Thailand, the data is so bad I wish it wasn't there.

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#84 2018-12-25 10:59:51

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 426
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Here are 3 tricky junctions. the top one in this picture (ignore the junction that needs fixing and the street on the left:

Image-2.png

and just a few metres North two more

Image-1.png

There is a median clearly visible on all imagery that I checked. R turns are impossible. We have two choices: either put in turn restrictions or draw a dual carriageway for the few 100 m. We can't expect FB to do the former, but what about the latter? Do I write something in the changeset or should I just edit it?

Thanks,
Peter.

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#85 2018-12-25 11:56:47

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 244

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Peter,
Happy Xmas !  Since the DWG requested, I have been documenting the errors with Way numbers in all changesets.  Apart from the first one, I have not had a single further reply from anyone at FB.  This leads me to believe they are all blowing their own trumpets citing a successful project completed, and have simply abandoned OSM to move onto other new exciting things.
So, we are stuck with this crap now ... one one will fix ... and its just too late for reverts... so lets just bite the bullet and put every mistake right, one at at time. I see no point in continual changeset comments which end up in empty mailboxes.
Oh, and Yes, I would draw the short section of d/c, rather than a turn restriction, in order to solve the problem.
Russ.

Last edited by Russ McD (2018-12-25 12:10:18)

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#86 2018-12-25 13:44:08

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 426
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Hi Russ,

I've had another reply a few days ago. But, as I said, they need to go over the old stuff from the beginning and fix it, because only they have the manpower. And while it's too late for a revert, it's not too late for a mass re-tag, which is what I favour.

Anyway, this post was not meant to criticise their mapping in this instance. This is more advanced and I would not expect newbie mappers to get this right. I'm just wondering whether we should fix this kind of thing, or is it worth letting them know. I assume they are still mapping OSM?

Happy new year to you all,
Peter.

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#87 2018-12-26 03:14:52

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 244

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Every day, I find another FB instance of lazy/bad mapping. 
Todays popped up quite quickly... check out the two residential roads that have imaginary bridges to connect directly with Hwy 3412:

Before ...
FB-crap-1.jpg
After my correction ...
FB-crap-2.jpg

The irony is, there are 4 bridges on that road that clearly do make the connection, but yet none of these were added. I suppose if the AI Machine didn't find it, then why would the FB mapper even bother to look.  Yup, "bang it in and move on".

But the point is, the nameless FB mapper, who I refer to as Wonder Woman from her Avatar, was quite active until 4 months ago when all edits stopped.  This does add support for the assumption that FB has left us with a bunch of crap, and got rid of its mappers, leaving us to sort the mess.  I see no more responses from them in this forum any more.

I left a changeset comment https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset … 3/100.5379 but like all the others, I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears.
Russ

Last edited by Russ McD (2018-12-26 03:26:03)

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#88 2018-12-31 06:29:14

Russ McD
Member
From: Hereford & Chiang Mai.
Registered: 2011-04-17
Posts: 244

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

So for today's episode of Facebook related comments, I present the following :

Changeset: 59408507 - Verifying connections, updates to classifications and simplifying roads - Closed 7 months ago by VLD042

Way 559552127 - Dear Jon from Grand Junction. Ironic as junctions are just not your forte! 
Anyway you have been pretty lazy plotting this junction.  I mean, just look at the poor accuracy of the yellow tertiary ลย.3015 which we did many years ago when all we had was low res aerials.
So you come along with your fancy machine learning, plot the residential perfectly, but are just to damn lazy to give us a few minutes of your time to add a few extra nodes to the Tertiary road, and make the junction come a bit closer to looking like it does in real life.
I appreciate your brief might have been to leave existing OSM data alone, but c'mon, you could have used your discretion here.
However, with no edits for three months, I suppose my comments fall on stony ground?
Russ.

Here is the pic before I revised the whole road :
resi.jpg
Russ

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#89 2018-12-31 06:31:35

AlaskaDave
Member
From: Homer, Alaska ; Chiang Mai
Registered: 2013-09-21
Posts: 328
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Yuk. Just awful!

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#90 2019-07-25 18:46:24

Beddhist
Member
From: Doembang Nangbuat, TH
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 426
Website

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Everybody interested in this subject: this is from the BBC topic:

SomeoneElse wrote:
Beddhist wrote:

Sorry, I was assuming that DWG members would follow that topic

While we'd normally suggest that requests to the DWG are made via data@osmfoundation.org (or the "report" button now), I've been trying to keep on top of posts here and in the other forums too.  However, neither #79 nor #83 in that thread are a request for the DWG to do anything.  The first looks like a suggestion for people within the local community to do something; the second seems unsure ("where do we draw the line?").

I propose that we figure out a cutoff date, before which we consider most FB edits to be so poor that they should be mass-tagged as "road". This will remove the edits from routing, but keep them to be verified in the future.

Once we have consensus, we request the DWG perform the mass-retag.

Let's get this mess sorted out.

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#91 2019-07-25 19:02:20

Bernhard Hiller
Member
Registered: 2011-05-10
Posts: 886

Re: Facebookstreetmap.com

Beddhist wrote:

most FB edits to be so poor that they should be mass-tagged as "road"

That's what I use a style-rule for.
I do not need such automated re-tagging, but I do not oppose it either.

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