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#1 2018-07-09 17:29:36

dmouhama
New Member
Registered: 2018-07-05
Posts: 1

What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

Hello,
I'm a member of the Amazon Logistics team. We have some errors mostly dealing with Turn Restrictions that were collected by our delivery drivers in Germany.
Since we are all located outside with limited local experience, we thought the best approach to have them corrected was by leaving a note via OSM. However we were worried that some of these notes might not be addressed in a timely manner.
So please let us know of ways we could go about these.

Best,

**Google Translate, sorry smile**

Hallo,
Ich bin Mitglied des Amazon Logistics-Teams. Wir haben einige Fehler, die sich hauptsächlich auf Turn Restrictions beziehen, die von unseren Lieferfahrern in Deutschland gesammelt wurden.
Da wir uns alle außerhalb mit begrenzter lokaler Erfahrung befinden, dachten wir, dass der beste Weg, sie zu korrigieren, darin besteht, eine Notiz über OSM zu hinterlassen. Wir waren jedoch besorgt, dass einige dieser Notizen nicht rechtzeitig behandelt werden könnten.
Also lassen Sie uns bitte wissen, wie wir das machen könnten.

Beste,

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#2 2018-07-09 21:33:26

30303020
Member
Registered: 2017-11-05
Posts: 34

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

Hey dnouhama,

welcome to OSM's Germany forum. It is great to hear that you use OSM and want improve our data.
Unfortunately, I am not an expert on turning restrictions, so I can just tell you something about the general setup.

The advantage of using notes is that you can barely do anything wrong (there are some things though!). On the other hand, notes are like requests or hints for mappers to change the map, this means that it may cause problems on the mapper's side (referring to my personal experience only, others may have different views on that):

  • Every note is dealt in a case-by-case analysis, so it may take some time.

  • I need to verify everything that is claimed in a note. This could lead to checking aerial imagery  or other sources if I were unable to check locally. In my experience, imagery is about a year (?) old, so the note would be open for at least a year in case of a recent change.

  • This is a community project, at least for most contributors/mappers: Checking notes happens in your free time, so it cannot be provided as an instant service comparable to a service department in a company.

  • There are some rules regarding notes in specific (you may find them there https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Notes). Especially, the fact that notes must not be used for automated error checking is important.

I would therefore suggest, you get to know the data structure and edit the restrictions yourself. After a small number of changes uploaded, I would contact the forum again and request someone to check you edits for a general mistake.
The great advantage of this strategy is that the database is updated instantly and nobody permanently needs to check everything you did in detail and add it manually. The only problem for you would be the use of outdated maps in your navigation devices (you would probably need to manually update the data on your devices).

Some articles that may help you:
The osm wiki article about turn restrictions: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rel … estriction
The beginner's guide: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_guide

Cheers,
30303020

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#3 2018-07-09 22:01:17

hsimpson
Member
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 617

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

Hi,

also ihr klingt so, als würde ihr euch mit den Daten schon etwas auskennen, daher lasse ich erstmal die technischen Details zu den Abbiegebeschränkungen. Bei Bedarf kann ich das gerne noch nachholen.

Eine Sache will ich nur los werden: Nach meiner Erfahrung liegen solchen Problemen im LKW-Bereich viel häufiger Sperungen von ganzen Straßen zu grunde, als dass alleine das Abbiegen verboten wäre. Daher wäre ich erstmal etwas vorsichtig mit den Abbiegebeschränkungen! Oder reden wir hier von den Bullis, die auf der letzten Meile ausliefern?

Mit den Fehlermeldungen ist das so ne Sache. Je mehr verifizierbare Infos es gibt, desto schneller werden die bearbeitet. Jetzt ist die Meldung eines Fahrers nicht wirklich durch dritte verifizierbar, was bedeutet, dass im Endeffekt da wer hin muss, um die Situation zu begutachten. Das kann je nach Örtlichkeit auch länger dauern.

Eine Idee hätte ich aber: Soweit ich das überblicke, haben viele Trucker heutzutage ne Dashcam dabei. Wenn ihr ein paar Videos oder Fotos von der Stelle macht und die irgendwo hoch ladet, wo wir ohne Urheberrechtsprobleme dran können, wäre das sehr hilfreich! Die bekannteste Adresse unter uns Mappern für solche Bilder ist Mapillary: https://www.mapillary.com/ Die Daten, die hier hochgeladen werden, sind ausdrücklich für die Verwendung in OSM freigegeben.

Wie genau der Upload funktioniert kann ich nicht genau sagen, da ich das bisher nicht gemacht habe. Da gibt's aber sicher ein Tutorial zu und vlt hat ja wer hier im Forum schon Erfahrungen, wie man Videos Mappillary-taulglich behandelt oder direkt mit der Dashcam Bilder für Mapillary macht.

Nebenbei: Wenn ihr ab und an mal auf euren Fahrten ein Paar Bilder für Mapillary aufnehmt, helft ihr uns ungemein, auch ebgelegenere Regionen besser zu erfassen, was im Endeffekt wiederum euch nützt, weil die Daten besser werden wink

Quasi eine win-win Situation smile

Viele Grüße
hsimpson

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#4 2018-07-09 22:23:19

hsimpson
Member
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 617

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

Btw, aus interesse: Verarbeitet ihr die OSM-Daten selbst, oder nutzt ihr einen externen Router?

Evtl könnte das Problem ja schon daher rühren, dass euer Router nicht mit Abbiegebeschränkungen umgehen kann.

Grüße

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#5 2018-07-10 06:35:05

SunCobalt
Member
From: Eislingen
Registered: 2010-01-09
Posts: 3,514

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

dmouhama wrote:

We have some errors mostly dealing with Turn Restrictions

Can you please quantify "some"?

The key to get errors fixed -regardless how you adress the errors- is a clear description. In OSM we enter turn restriction with: from (road), to (road) via (roads intersection point) and type of restriction (only/no-right/left-turn, only/no-straight-on).

If you don't want to leave notes in OSM, how about an OSM wiki page with a list, sortable by location (Zip, city etc). On such a wiki page you have the chance to explain who you are, how the information has been obtained and allow mappers to ask question if the error description is ambiguous.

If the situation can not be verified with the help of aerial or street view images like Mapillary , you may need to wait until someone visits the place. Depending where it is, it can take some time. In an ideal world you would capture a sequence of images when crossing the intersection and upload it to Mapillary.


Thomas

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#6 2018-07-10 15:24:15

gormo
Member
Registered: 2013-08-01
Posts: 1,778
Website

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

dmouhama wrote:

Hello,
I'm a member of the Amazon Logistics team. We have some errors mostly dealing with Turn Restrictions that were collected by our delivery drivers in Germany.
Since we are all located outside with limited local experience, we thought the best approach to have them corrected was by leaving a note via OSM. However we were worried that some of these notes might not be addressed in a timely manner.
So please let us know of ways we could go about these.

If you need really fast update times you could pay someone to (verify and) insert them.

You could leave good quality notes, something like "It is not allowed to turn right from xy-street to zz-street" while logged in, so that persons trying to edit these turn restrictions can contact you. On your OSM Wiki user page describe who you are (Amazon logistics) and how you collect the information in the notes. Chances are that mappers may then be able to update the restrictions without having to visit the place first.

If you leave masses of anonymous notes someone will declare this spam and maybe close without action. Also, this will prejudice people against you. So don't do it :-)


OSM hat nicht das Ziel bis Ende des Monats einen vollständigen Datensatz der Welt zu enthalten.
(nach S.W.) - Aber weil die Welt vielfältig ist, weil sie auch im Detail interessant ist, mag ich genaue Karten (nach C.)

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#7 2018-07-12 01:28:00

samguer
New Member
Registered: 2018-07-12
Posts: 1

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

Hallo Leute, danke, dass du dir die Zeit genommen hast, Feedback zu geben. Ich bin Samguer mit Amazon-Logistik. Zusammenfassend erhalten wir Fehler von unseren Fahrern vor Ort. Unser Ziel ist es, diese Probleme zu lösen und OSM zu verbessern.

Unser Hauptgedanke ist, die lokale OSM-Community in Deutschland zu respektieren. Wir möchten, dass dies ein integrativer Prozess ist. Wir versuchen nicht, als Außenseiter OSM zu zerstören. Unsere Absicht ist es, OSM zu verbessern, um das Routing für unsere Fahrer auf der Straße sicher zu machen.

Wir werden versuchen, so viele der Fehler zu beheben, die unsere Fahrer über Satellitendaten gemeldet haben. Wir werden hier in diesem Forum die Fehler melden, die wir behoben haben (in einem einzigen zusammenfassenden Beitrag). Wir möchten wirklich sehr transparent mit den Veränderungen sein, die wir machen.

Die Fehler, die wir nicht beheben können, hinterlassen wir detaillierte Notizen. Die Notizen werden das Problem, das wir sehen, umreißen und die Bearbeitung haben, von der wir denken, dass sie benötigt wird, um sie zu beheben. Wir hoffen, dass uns die Community mit lokalem Wissen helfen wird, das uns in den USA nicht zur Verfügung steht. Wir werden die Notizen, die wir hier hinterlassen, in einem zusammenfassenden Beitrag katalogisieren. Die Fehler, die wir identifizieren, sind gültige Fehler, von denen OSM profitieren kann.

Bitte lass mich deine Gedanken wissen.

Vielen Dank,
Sam

Dies wurde ursprünglich auf Englisch geschrieben, es tut mir leid, wenn meine Sätze nicht klar übersetzt werden. Ich würde mich freuen, jede Verwirrung zu klären.

*
Hey everyone thank you taking the time to provide feedback. I’m samguer with Amazon logistics. In summary, we receive errors from our drivers on the ground. Our goal is to resolve these issues and improve OSM.

Our main tenet is to be respectful of the local OSM community in Germany. We would like this to be an inclusive process. We are not trying to come in as outsiders to vandalize OSM. Our intention is to improve OSM to make routing safe for our drivers on the road.

We will try to resolve as many of the errors our drivers have reported using satellite imagery. We will report here in this forum the errors we have fixed (in a single summary post). We really want to be very transparent with the changes we make.

The errors we are unable to fix we will leave detailed notes. The notes will outline the problem we see and have the edit we think is needed to fix it. We are hoping the community will help us with local knowledge that is unavailable to us in the US. We will catalog the notes we leave here in a summary post. The errors we identify are valid errors that OSM can benefit from.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thank you,
Sam

This was originally written in English, I am sorry if my sentences do not translate clearly. I’d be happy to clear up any confusion.

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#8 2018-07-12 10:30:09

wambacher
Member
From: Schlangenbad/Wambach, Germany
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 15,121
Website

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

Hi sam,

samguer wrote:

We will try to resolve as many of the errors our drivers have reported using satellite imagery. We will report here in this forum the errors we have fixed (in a single summary post). We really want to be very transparent with the changes we make.

Maybe a WIKI page on wiki.openstreetmap.org would make more sense here?
Let's see what colleagues think.

Otherwise, I think this is a sensible course of action.

########################################

Eventuell wäre hier eine WIKI-Seite auf wiki.openstreetmap.org sinnvoller?
Lasst uns sehen, was die Kollegen dazu meinen.

Ansonsten halte ich diese Vorgehensweise schon für vernünftig.

Gruss
walter

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#9 2018-07-12 19:34:28

30303020
Member
Registered: 2017-11-05
Posts: 34

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

I would also suggest a wiki page.
____________________________________________________________

Ich wäre auch für eine Wikiseite.

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#10 2018-07-13 09:35:54

tux67
Member
From: Wegberg
Registered: 2014-08-19
Posts: 112

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

Hi,

one additional question .. which kind of vehicels are in Scope here? Some lines above I read something about Trucks .. I would assume we talk about local delivery to the final individual customer and the drivers would use Mid-Size to small vans?

BR
Stephan

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#11 2018-07-13 12:18:19

gormo
Member
Registered: 2013-08-01
Posts: 1,778
Website

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

30303020 wrote:

I would also suggest a wiki page.
____________________________________________________________

Ich wäre auch für eine Wikiseite.

I would also prefer a wiki page, which you could then link to from the forum and from (possibly) mailing lists (like talk-de).


OSM hat nicht das Ziel bis Ende des Monats einen vollständigen Datensatz der Welt zu enthalten.
(nach S.W.) - Aber weil die Welt vielfältig ist, weil sie auch im Detail interessant ist, mag ich genaue Karten (nach C.)

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#12 2018-07-13 16:00:38

abrensch
Member
Registered: 2013-01-07
Posts: 373

Re: What's the best way to get Notes fixed?

dmouhama wrote:

Since we are all located outside with limited local experience, we thought the best approach to have them corrected was by leaving a note via OSM. However we were worried that some of these notes might not be addressed in a timely manner.
So please let us know of ways we could go about these.

Notes are perfect for that puropose, maybe you should just relax your timeline excpectation and increase the effort in maintaining your notes. Looking at yours I see a misleading cust&paste Note:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dmouhama/notes

The other is the type you are talking about: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1444042

But what exactly does it tell? Not that you need a second source. Why not write your knowledge in the note? Did the driver saw a traffic-sign that forbids the turn? Trucks only? Or was he just not comfortable turning his truck there?

I'm doing similiar issue tracking based on suspect-scanning, and if I think I have not enough information doing the edit, I create notes. My experience is that more than 50% get addressed, but not within a week, more within months.

And for those that do not get addressed withing some weeks I think it's a valid approach to write a message to one of the mappers with recent activity on that items, asking them to have a look at your note.

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