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#1 2018-02-25 01:19:33

Tedros
Member
Registered: 2018-02-25
Posts: 7

Wrong border within a country

Hi There,

I have been trying to change a wrong border marking within Somalia.  This wrong marking has had massive impact on several humanitarian, logistical and national consequences.  Therefore, I'd like to see if we can change it as I could not myself.  I have got the proof that it is a wrong fake border submitted by random stranger. 

Can someone please help me with this enquiry? 


Thank you,
Tedros

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#2 2018-02-25 11:24:37

SimonPoole
Member
Registered: 2010-03-14
Posts: 1,961

Re: Wrong border within a country

This is really a bit off topic here.

But in any case, please detail what you believe is wrong, why and what you believe is the correct  border (Somalia being Somalia, "correct" is a likely rather fuzzy term).

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#3 2018-02-25 11:44:49

hadw
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 1,081

Re: Wrong border within a country

The OSM policy is that borders reflect who has real control in the area in question, and make no statement about whether or not the exercise of that control is legal.

If this is disputed territory, you need to know things like who runs the police force.  Who collects taxes.  Etc. In a place like Somalia, the only reliable way of finding this information is likely to be on the ground, although I believe that obvious lines of fortifications have been taken as a strong hint.

OSM should never be relied on as being legally authoritative, or as indicating that somewhere is safe to go.

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#4 2018-02-25 12:02:53

hadw
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 1,081

Re: Wrong border within a country

Looking at your user profile, and the changes you've made, in particular the changeset comments, and that you have changed names of countries and capital cities within your first 22 edits (even though the reason for changing them seems to be valid, albeit the changeset comment seems too angry), I see someone taking an extremely nationalist view.

I would suggest that means you are not the right person to be moving borders.

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#5 2018-02-25 13:20:13

emga
Member
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 311

Re: Wrong border within a country

hadw wrote:

The OSM policy is that borders reflect who has real control in the area in question, and make no statement about whether or not the exercise of that control is legal.

So lets make Crimea finally Russian?!

This policy should be changed.

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#6 2018-02-25 13:28:22

SimonPoole
Member
Registered: 2010-03-14
Posts: 1,961

Re: Wrong border within a country

emga wrote:
hadw wrote:

The OSM policy is that borders reflect who has real control in the area in question, and make no statement about whether or not the exercise of that control is legal.

So lets make Crimea finally Russian?!

This policy should be changed.

Maybe it would be a good idea if you would inform yourself about a specific topic and then comment, instead of the other way around as you've repeatedly done?

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#7 2018-02-25 13:31:17

Tedros
Member
Registered: 2018-02-25
Posts: 7

Re: Wrong border within a country

Hi All,

@SimonPoole  Thank you for your reply, I wasn't aware that it is off topic here as I have never posted before on this forum.  thank you for your consideration and effort.  I have attached two maps and as you can see the odd border that someone just decided to add without it being reflective of the reality on the ground.  Above all it is inaccurate for geographical purposes as well.  We need it to be accurate for us to do humanitarian/logistics & Supply chain project. We do not want to confuse our foreign haulage company with inaccurate border crossing. Please let me know what you can do?  smile  Once again thank you for effort and time.
https://ibb.co/dE05Hc  <It should be administrative border
https://ibb.co/faeUAx   <Actual map, additionally check Google maps.

@Hadw  Secondly,  Yes some random person decided to add Arabic names to Somalia's cities, names and other places.  It is like giving Ireland and Irish cities German names?  I am far from being nationalist but actually realist. I just dislike to see wrong representation of countries.  Hence I am Ethiopian so how can I be nationalist?  Can you please explain to me why you are so belligerent and self defeating as you said yourself the changes I made seem valid?   Please do not waste your precious time on my changes or edits neither did I ask for evaluation.  I think you have got better things to do in life smile  Thank you for your free review I appreciate.

Thank you all,
Tedros

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#8 2018-02-25 14:26:02

emga
Member
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 311

Re: Wrong border within a country

SimonPoole wrote:
emga wrote:
hadw wrote:

The OSM policy is that borders reflect who has real control in the area in question, and make no statement about whether or not the exercise of that control is legal.

So lets make Crimea finally Russian?!

This policy should be changed.

Maybe it would be a good idea if you would inform yourself about a specific topic and then comment, instead of the other way around as you've repeatedly done?

where and how?

Aber wirklich jetzt, wenn das die Einstellung ist, dann muss man ja viele Grenzen ändern, weil nicht überall hat der jeweilige Staat die Kontrolle (bekanntestes Beispiel ist wohl der IS) Wie soll man das umsetzen, das öffnet ja Tür und Tor für Willkür.

Last edited by emga (2018-02-25 14:39:11)

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#9 2018-02-25 15:12:17

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 1,439

Re: Wrong border within a country

@Tedros There's a sub-forum devoted to international boundaries over at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=61207 (that's in the German-speaking part of the forum, but English is widely understood there).  The OSMF's policy on disputed boundaries can be found at https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images … mation.pdf

I've reverted the changes that you've made so far (including the deletion of Somaliland, which was in OSM as a "disputed territory" - a classification that is surely correct).

If you've got any specific points you'd like to make you can also contact OSM's Data Working Group by email on data@osmfoundation.org .

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#10 2018-02-25 15:27:33

SimonPoole
Member
Registered: 2010-03-14
Posts: 1,961

Re: Wrong border within a country

emga wrote:
SimonPoole wrote:
emga wrote:

So lets make Crimea finally Russian?!

This policy should be changed.

Maybe it would be a good idea if you would inform yourself about a specific topic and then comment, instead of the other way around as you've repeatedly done?

where and how?

Aber wirklich jetzt, wenn das die Einstellung ist, dann muss man ja viele Grenzen ändern, weil nicht überall hat der jeweilige Staat die Kontrolle (bekanntestes Beispiel ist wohl der IS) Wie soll man das umsetzen, das öffnet ja Tür und Tor für Willkür.

hadw has already outlined the policy correctly, see https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images … mation.pdf for the full document.

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#11 2018-02-25 16:16:13

emga
Member
Registered: 2014-05-21
Posts: 311

Re: Wrong border within a country

SimonPoole wrote:
emga wrote:
SimonPoole wrote:

Maybe it would be a good idea if you would inform yourself about a specific topic and then comment, instead of the other way around as you've repeatedly done?

where and how?

Aber wirklich jetzt, wenn das die Einstellung ist, dann muss man ja viele Grenzen ändern, weil nicht überall hat der jeweilige Staat die Kontrolle (bekanntestes Beispiel ist wohl der IS) Wie soll man das umsetzen, das öffnet ja Tür und Tor für Willkür.

hadw has already outlined the policy correctly, see https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images … mation.pdf for the full document.

Thanks for the link!

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#12 2018-02-25 16:16:36

Tedros
Member
Registered: 2018-02-25
Posts: 7

Re: Wrong border within a country

SomeoneElse wrote:

@Tedros There's a sub-forum devoted to international boundaries over at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=61207 (that's in the German-speaking part of the forum, but English is widely understood there).  The OSMF's policy on disputed boundaries can be found at https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images … mation.pdf

I've reverted the changes that you've made so far (including the deletion of Somaliland, which was in OSM as a "disputed territory" - a classification that is surely correct).

If you've got any specific points you'd like to make you can also contact OSM's Data Working Group by email on data@osmfoundation.org .


Thank you for pointing out the right forum I will surely go there to report on this and I will sent e-mail to group.  It is very unfortunate to see that you reverted my changes as I have read that on the ground situation plays significant role in any decision here on OSM.  Given this it is highly inaccurate to map this so called Dispute on Somalia's map.  OSM has obligation to show the correct map to many of the world's maps.  If this is were the case Catalonia, Bavaria and Crimea and Corsica should be changed along with Scotland as disputed region :-)  I do not see that here on OSM.  Seems a bit selective but overall I understand I will use the right channels to make sure of this.  I'd like to thank you for your effort and time.

Thank you,
Tedros

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