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#1 2017-09-15 17:38:20

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

How can i find (for example) this location in JOSM  ? -> 51° 14' 36.02"3° 29' 7.45"

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-15 17:39:47)

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#2 2017-09-15 17:40:29

GerdP
Member
Registered: 2015-12-18
Posts: 406

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

Ctrl+J opens a dialog that allows to jump to a position. Not sure if you can use the lat /lon values as is.

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#3 2017-09-15 17:43:45

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

GerdP wrote:

Ctrl+J opens a dialog that allows to jump to a position. Not sure if you can use the lat /lon values as is.

i tried that, but did not work with those type of coordinates i mentioned above . roll

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-15 17:45:42)

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#4 2017-09-15 18:23:43

GerdP
Member
Registered: 2015-12-18
Posts: 406

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

You can use e.g. http://www.earthpoint.us/Convert.aspx
to convert the units.
Next paste the values 51.2433389° and 003.4854028° into the JOSM dialog.

If you need that often I suggest to open a ticket in JOSM to support your format.

Gerd

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#5 2017-09-15 18:30:02

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

I managed it with this converter -> https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/dms-decimal  , and set the zoom on 0 meters in josm-window .
Should be also in josm without such 'hassle' me thinks ...
tnx anyway GerdP wink

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-15 18:32:00)

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#6 2017-09-16 00:19:10

alester
Member
Registered: 2011-09-21
Posts: 164

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

henke54 wrote:

Should be also in josm without such 'hassle' me thinks ...

I don't have access to my JOSM right now to test, but I bet it would work if you put a space between the lat and lon. JOSM is pretty good about accepting many formats of coordinates.

FYI, you can also use Shift+D to add a node at specified coordinates.

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#7 2017-09-16 07:23:02

BCNorwich
Member
From: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2010-07-31
Posts: 97

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

Hi,
Presenting your coords with the N S E W indication will work. Thus Latitude 51° 14' 36.02"N  Longitude 3° 29' 7.45"E when input to JOSM as above takes you to the Netherlands - Belgium border.
Then download the data at that point.
Bernard

Pressing again Ctrl+J in JOSM presents the url as :- https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/5 … 8797911657

Last edited by BCNorwich (2017-09-16 07:31:19)

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#8 2017-09-16 07:28:01

GerdP
Member
Registered: 2015-12-18
Posts: 406

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

Ah, Shift+D is a good hint. Unfortuately is also neither accepts
51° 14' 36.02"3° 29' 7.45"
nor
51° 14' 36.02" 3° 29' 7.45"
It works when you add N and E
N51° 14' 36.02" E3° 29' 7.45"

But that already requires some thinking ;-)

Gerd

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#9 2017-09-16 08:30:57

BCNorwich
Member
From: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2010-07-31
Posts: 97

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

Yes the Shift+D with the N and E is slightly better for placing a node at the position, you don't accidentally lose your position with the node plotted.
However if the node will not be be a part of your editing you must remember to remove it before any upload of new data.
Bernard

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#10 2017-09-16 12:23:23

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

BCNorwich wrote:

Hi, Thus Latitude 51° 14' 36.02"N  Longitude 3° 29' 7.45"E when input to JOSM as above takes you to the Netherlands - Belgium border.

Yes, thank you . wink
I recently made contact with a group of people, who's hobby/interest is to walk/bike/travel along (country)borders, and take pictures of the several boundary_markers (border/land-marks/stones) ->
http://grenspalen.com/
http://www.grenspalen.nl/
http://www.grensmarkeringen.be/
If you click on a bend in above area, or other bends from that borderline , i made images from them websites (they have thousands of pictures, so it shall take a while  tongue ) . That is why i also asked to have a visible icon for boundary_marker in OSM . wink

P.S. ; I also have a tip for people who make pictures of those boundary_markers : best is to upload a good picture from an 'item'(boundary_marker in this case) to Wikimedia Commons , to avoid 'hassle' with 'licence permit' and so on, and also a exact coordinate of the 'item'(boundary_marker) itself ... because usually, a picture taken with a camera(or smarthphone), the coordinate from the place where picture is taken is 'embedded' in photo, and it is not the (exact) coordinate of the 'item'(boundary_marker in this case) itself. wink

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-16 13:22:28)

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#11 2017-09-16 13:26:29

SomeoneElse
Member
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 942

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/rKV

shows the '"historic"="boundary_marker"' objects that you have added.

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#12 2017-09-17 11:14:31

escada
Moderator
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

henke54 wrote:
BCNorwich wrote:

Hi, Thus Latitude 51° 14' 36.02"N  Longitude 3° 29' 7.45"E when input to JOSM as above takes you to the Netherlands - Belgium border.

Yes, thank you . wink
I recently made contact with a group of people, who's hobby/interest is to walk/bike/travel along (country)borders, and take pictures of the several boundary_markers (border/land-marks/stones) ->
http://grenspalen.com/
http://www.grenspalen.nl/
http://www.grensmarkeringen.be/
If you click on a bend in above area, or other bends from that borderline , i made images from them websites (they have thousands of pictures, so it shall take a while  tongue ) . That is why i also asked to have a visible icon for boundary_marker in OSM . wink

P.S. ; I also have a tip for people who make pictures of those boundary_markers : best is to upload a good picture from an 'item'(boundary_marker in this case) to Wikimedia Commons , to avoid 'hassle' with 'licence permit' and so on, and also a exact coordinate of the 'item'(boundary_marker) itself ... because usually, a picture taken with a camera(or smarthphone), the coordinate from the place where picture is taken is 'embedded' in photo, and it is not the (exact) coordinate of the 'item'(boundary_marker in this case) itself. wink

I thought that wikimedia demands that you have the coordinates of the place where the picture is taken in the photo, not of the depicted object. [Edit:] see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Upload:

Informations such as date and camera position are added automatically

[Edit: Earlier this week another Wikimedian asked me to make sure that the lat/lon where indicating the exact spot form where the picture was taken. The owner of the house complained about a picture, but it was taken from a public road. So the position had to show the place on the street from where the picture was taken, not the position of the house.]

As for a map with historical boundary stones: http://gk.historic.place

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#13 2017-09-17 11:26:18

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

escada wrote:

I thought that wikimedia demands that you have the coordinates of the place where the picture is taken in the photo, not of the depicted object. Can't find a source for that right now.

I do not know either, but for placing the 'correct' (as far as possible) position on OSM, it is better to have the coordinates of the item itself , isn't it ? roll

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-17 11:26:44)

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#14 2017-09-17 11:43:16

escada
Moderator
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

1) see my update on the claim from the house owner.
2) Which coordinate do you use when you take a picture of a street and a church: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File … ke5076.jpg Then it's important to know where the picture was taken.
This is also more or less true for pictures of boundary stones. Did you take the picture from the north, south, east or west side ?
Coordinates of items are for OSM, Wikidata and Wikipedia, not for Commons.

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#15 2017-09-17 11:56:40

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

escada wrote:

1) see my update on the claim from the house owner.
2) Which coordinate do you use when you take a picture of a street and a church: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File … ke5076.jpg Then it's important to know where the picture was taken.
This is also more or less true for pictures of boundary stones. Did you take the picture from the north, south, east or west side ?
Coordinates of items are for OSM, Wikidata and Wikipedia, not for Commons.

So ... as far as i understand you ; it is best to gather 2 coordinates then , 1 from item itself (for 'exact' placing in OSM / Wikidata / Wikipedia), and 1 from place where picture is taken (for uploading at Wikimedia Commons) . wink

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-17 12:23:35)

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#16 2017-09-18 04:08:39

escada
Moderator
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

henke54 wrote:

So ... as far as i understand you ; it is best to gather 2 coordinates then

sorry for the extra work smile

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#17 2017-09-18 08:52:58

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

escada wrote:

Informations such as date and camera position are added automatically

your example from above ;

Object location     50° 49′ 58.81″ N, 3° 45′ 51.88″ E

That position ; it is the 'item' (church itself in this case) , but I cannot find the coordinate of camera position .
roll

escada wrote:

[Edit: Earlier this week another Wikimedian asked me to make sure that the lat/lon where indicating the exact spot form where the picture was taken. The owner of the house complained about a picture, but it was taken from a public road. So the position had to show the place on the street from where the picture was taken, not the position of the house.]

Tell that Wikimedian then, that there also should a 'Camera location' on that info . tongue

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-18 09:07:47)

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#18 2017-09-18 09:44:26

escada
Moderator
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

If you use the uploader pages from commons, the small (i) next to the location info shows the text "Coördinaten van de locatie waar dit mediabestand is gemaakt." (as you speak Dutch, I'm not translating that) That's not of the "item in the photo".

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#19 2017-09-18 10:22:03

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

escada wrote:

If you use the uploader pages from commons, the small (i) next to the location info shows the text "Coördinaten van de locatie waar dit mediabestand is gemaakt." (as you speak Dutch, I'm not translating that) That's not of the "item in the photo".

Still ... even if there isn't a Camera location given when uploading pictures, it should be ... next to the Object location (even 'empty') ... just to 'better inform' a viewer who's not 'familiar' with those given info .

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-18 14:23:03)

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#20 2017-09-18 11:17:46

escada
Moderator
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

It's a Wikimedia Commons issue, so this might not be the best place to discuss it, but isn't it more natural to store the location of the camera ? Every smartphone does this, all tools to georeference a photo from a DSLR to a track do this, Mapillary, OpenStreetCam, etc.

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#21 2017-09-18 13:27:09

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

escada wrote:

It's a Wikimedia Commons issue, so this might not be the best place to discuss it, but isn't it more natural to store the location of the camera ? Every smartphone does this, all tools to georeference a photo from a DSLR to a track do this, Mapillary, OpenStreetCam, etc.

OK, i admit that it is a Wikimedia Commons issue. Hopefully they look sometimes at this thread . wink
Also, next to those 2 coordinates (Camera location and Object Location), because several smarthphones/camera's have a compass already build in, there could also been a visible info about the 'Direction' (or Bearing) the picture is taken (T for True North, or M for Magnetic North) . Even 'Altitude' could be added, because some 'gadgets' and garmins already have this ability. tongue

Last edited by henke54 (2017-09-18 14:05:33)

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#22 2017-09-18 13:53:16

escada
Moderator
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 1,410

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

henke54 wrote:

Also, next to those 2 coordinates (Camera location and Object Location), there could also been a visible info about the 'Direction' the picture is taken (T for True North, or M for Magnetic North) ,because several smarthphones/camera's have a compass already build in .

During upload you can fill it in. Perhaps when nothing is specified, they do not show it afterwards

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#23 2017-10-27 19:34:16

henke54
Member
Registered: 2015-03-17
Posts: 546

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

SomeoneElse wrote:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/rKV

shows the '"historic"="boundary_marker"' objects that you have added.

I changed all in ; boundary=marker and added historic=yes -> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/sEd
and going to do all the the other (historic)boundary markers also like that .
There should be also a key:boundary=marker on this wiki page in my opinion.

Last edited by henke54 (2017-10-27 19:36:44)

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#24 2017-10-27 20:44:35

Allroads
Member
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 2,612

Re: How to find an exact position in JOSM ?

JOSM==>more tools, lat long tool. I fill in the coordinates on a new layer, ok,  then select  the elements  to search on the world, making red. where it is, zoom in. copy it to the other layer and fill in the tags.
If it is the Dutch border you can use, the ESRI Actueel Hoogtebestand Nederland hillshade ruw Layer ( get a personal licence, free), if the boundery_marker is not under the trees, you can line out.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOS … ilsplugin2
but it is not descripted there, the lat lon tool

Last edited by Allroads (2017-10-27 21:49:42)

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