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#1 2009-10-30 15:12:52

akashihi
Member
Registered: 2009-10-11
Posts: 133

Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

Hi

Due to newly approved proposal on highway importance russian community is discussing new ways of highways tagging. We've agreed that international roads like E-roads in Europe and A-roads in Asia should be tagged as trunk, ignoring they actual physical conditions, like number of lanes etc

I would like to ask you to discuss this issue too, case we have at least two E-roads (E77 and E28) coming from Poland to Russia, so it will be at least strange, if we upgrade those roads to trunk locally, in Kaliningrad region, but leave them as primary in Poland.

You may join our discussion (russian only) at http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=5201 or ask me and i will translate.

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#2 2009-10-31 16:53:00

Mateusz Korniak
Member
From: Poland, Zabrze
Registered: 2008-12-04
Posts: 623

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

Hi !
We have recently decided to follow results of proposal with some exceptions but only inside cities.
We have strict mapping from polish goverment road level to highway tag value and we are going to follow it.
Trunk roads reflect polish "droga ekspresowa" which is fast road, usually with separate lanes for each directon and collisionless traffiic flow allowing maximum speed greater (110km/h) than 90km/h allowed outside cities in Poland, but not meeting UE freeway standards.
Not idea if E77 and E28 are trunk roads (unlikely) or only primiary, but should be tagged reflecting official level in Poland.
Hope it helps, regards !

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#3 2009-11-01 20:00:42

rhn
Member
Registered: 2008-10-30
Posts: 214

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

I think we as the Polish community should be more flexible and accept the international rules as more important than those specific to Poland...

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#4 2009-11-01 22:57:50

akashihi
Member
Registered: 2009-10-11
Posts: 133

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

AFAIK, Finland and UK already started marking their A## roads as trunks, ignoring their official status.

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#5 2009-11-02 08:31:05

Mateusz Korniak
Member
From: Poland, Zabrze
Registered: 2008-12-04
Posts: 623

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

rhn wrote:

I think we as the Polish community should be more flexible and accept the international rules as more important than those specific to Poland...

As I understand current highway meaning is: importance for the road grid/network.
Outside cities current official level matches pretty well importance (at least when snow falls wink ). I am not sure what actual change should be there ? Any road marked as Exx should be trunk ? How to mark polish express roads than ?

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#6 2009-11-02 10:50:16

decomposed06
Member
From: Wrocław
Registered: 2009-04-02
Posts: 136
Website

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

It is not good idea to mark international E roads as trunk because quality of these roads not differs from national roads marked two or one digit numbers.  We have simple gradation of roads in poland so why must we change it to more complicated.

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#7 2009-11-02 12:30:40

rhn
Member
Registered: 2008-10-30
Posts: 214

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

Mateusz Korniak wrote:

As I understand current highway meaning is: importance for the road grid/network.
Outside cities current official level matches pretty well importance (at least when snow falls wink ). I am not sure what actual change should be there ? Any road marked as Exx should be trunk ? How to mark polish express roads than ?

decomposed06 wrote:

It is not good idea to mark international E roads as trunk because quality of these roads not differs from national roads marked two or one digit numbers.  We have simple gradation of roads in poland so why must we change it to more complicated.

In my understanding, the E status for a road indicates that the road is important in international road network. That matches the definition we are currrently following. Having a road classified multiple times at different levels is nothing new - primary/secondary combos are already present in Poland.
I think the international road network should have priority over national... That would improve consistency of data across different countries, which in turn would allow for better map rendering.

I don't know what the exct tagging scheme should be, that's not my point. Maybe all of them should be trunk, maybe not. As for the road quality, there are different tag sets for this purpose.

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#8 2009-11-02 13:22:12

decomposed06
Member
From: Wrocław
Registered: 2009-04-02
Posts: 136
Website

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

rhn wrote:

I don't know what the exct tagging scheme should be, that's not my point. Maybe all of them should be trunk, maybe not. As for the road quality, there are different tag sets for this purpose.

I mean that in Poland there is no expressive difference between national and E roads (the same office, the same service level) and trunk tag we use to mark express routes. So what is difference between DK 4 and E40?

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#9 2009-11-02 15:56:59

Mateusz Korniak
Member
From: Poland, Zabrze
Registered: 2008-12-04
Posts: 623

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

rhn wrote:

I don't know what the exct tagging scheme should be, that's not my point. Maybe all of them should be trunk, maybe not. As for the road quality, there are different tag sets for this purpose.

We need new tagging scheme if we want to change current one.
And we have better to have it as astrict as possible.

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#10 2009-11-08 11:27:43

akashihi
Member
Registered: 2009-10-11
Posts: 133

Re: Upgrading E-Roads to trunks

rhn wrote:

In my understanding, the E status for a road indicates that the road is important in international road network. That matches the definition we are currrently following. Having a road classified multiple times at different levels is nothing new - primary/secondary combos are already present in Poland.
I think the international road network should have priority over national... That would improve consistency of data across different countries, which in turn would allow for better map rendering.

I don't know what the exct tagging scheme should be, that's not my point. Maybe all of them should be trunk, maybe not. As for the road quality, there are different tag sets for this purpose.


Here, in Russia, we've agreed that E roads are important for the whole europe, so they should be marked as trunks, for almost the same reasons, as you mentioned above. We also think, that marking E roads to higher levels whould be usefull for navigation - someone could extract only european trunks/motorways and some selected cities. In case of E roads, marked in different ways, it will be impossible.

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