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#1 2015-08-22 21:36:11

eric22
Member
Registered: 2010-07-04
Posts: 114

Bilingual streets

A number of streets in Jerusalem have been renamed by user  Doron Yosha to be bilingual - for example "המלך ג'ורג' - King George".

This came to my attention because it renders incorrectly in OsmAnd (the Hebrew characters are gibberish).

Should we revert this?

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#2 2015-08-22 21:50:42

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

As far as I understand, names should be in one language, and therefore, the changes should be reverted.
In Israel, English names should be entered under the name:en tag.

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#3 2015-08-23 05:29:02

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

Only if these streets does not have name:en tags we shold transfer english part to separate tag. Otherwise - explain to user osm rules and revert.

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#4 2015-08-25 16:41:42

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

See also Tagging_for_the_renderer on the OSM wiki

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#5 2015-08-25 19:11:32

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

As I understand we speaking about Doron Yosha
I checked several last changesets. He started changing name from dual language to English, which isn't acceptable as well.
I added comment to one of such changesets and invited him to join this forum. let's wait for response.

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#6 2015-08-26 06:32:56

Doron Yosha
Member
Registered: 2014-07-13
Posts: 16

Re: Bilingual streets

Hello all
I understand that it can't be HE and EN in the same name tag,
Is there any option to export to PDF a map of Jerusalem q Israel with the English st` names
That was my problem...
Hebrew is relevant only for locals which speaks Hebrew.

I will appreciate any answer, i have checked in the forum and many places and didnt find a way to do it right

Thanks
sorry for the mass

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#7 2015-08-26 07:40:30

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

Hi Doron,
I do not know any resource which creates PDFs, but you can start from next options:
http://developer.skobbler.de/mapcreator - can show map in English, Russian and some more popular languages
http://mlm.jochentopf.com/ - can show map in any language
http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/en.html - doesn't open for me now, but also should be able to show map in different languages. (you need to replace en.html in url with other language code)
http://osmand.net/ - very nice OSM based map viewing and navigation application for Android and iPhone. Can show map in any language.

And, if you find place which doesn't have translation to your favorite language you can use http://nomino.openstreetmap.fr/ to easilty add it.

What about your changes in Jerusalem? Do you want to fix them by yourself or need our help to revert whole changes?

Upd: looks like http://www.maposmatic.org/ can do the job.
Also, take a look on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_on_Paper it has a lot of different tools

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#8 2015-09-07 12:39:46

Doron Yosha
Member
Registered: 2014-07-13
Posts: 16

Re: Bilingual streets

Thanks you all!
unfortinatlly i couldnt find any way to export PDF file with the english street names of jerusalem
is there an easy and fast way to fix what i did?

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#9 2015-09-08 19:50:40

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

I could not get http://developer.skobbler.de/mapcreator to show street names in any language except Hebrew, and http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/en.html is gone, and so is http://www.maposmatic.org/. I also could not find how to access the http://osmand.net/ map.

The good news is that http://mlm.jochentopf.com/ can supply the necessary tiles for creating a PDF file using MOBAC - Mobile Atlas Creator

Please take a look at a map made of zoom 15, a map of zoom 16 as well as the map definition file for MOBAC on my public Dropbox folder.
No registration is required! However, if any of you do not have a Dropbox account, I would appreciate if you register using this link. You will get 2.5 Gb of free storage instead of the usual 2Gb, and I will also get an extra 0.5 Gb to keep sharing.

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#10 2015-09-08 21:29:13

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

About fix: I think we can try to just overwrite all name tags with value from name:he.
Doron, are all you changes was in Jerusalem only?

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#11 2015-09-09 06:43:39

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

Dimitry,
Please see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/blu for all roads with mixed Hebrew and English names.
The "data" tab on the top right corner contains the way and node information in XML format.

Doron,
Did you also change names of other map entries except roads?

Last edited by zstadler (2015-09-09 06:44:12)

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#12 2015-12-07 20:53:45

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

I have manually edited and reviewed an OSM XML file with the Bilingual names.

Can someone help me prepare it for uploading?

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#13 2015-12-07 21:09:11

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

zstadler wrote:

Can someone help me prepare it for uploading?

What's the problem?
I usually upload such files via JOSM.

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#14 2015-12-07 21:38:52

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

I'm not sure what is the required format for uploading.
Currently it's an hand-edited version of a OSM file I copied from Overpass Turbo.
If uploading requires OsmChange format, for example, then how do I get the "version" info?

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#15 2015-12-07 21:52:10

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

JOSM can open regular .osm file and will create change request on upload. the only condition - you should have exported full osm data (include metadata). If you don't see fields like version and changesets - you probably don't have them.

Once with Mr.Israel we used different approach: we edited data in excel like spreadsheet, and then exported it as csv. I wrote a tool which after parsed this csv file, get all metadata from osm servers by item ID and then uploaded it as a new changeset.
You can try to do the same and meantime I'll try to recall how exactly we done that smile

UPD: here is a link to code page with some very short instructions: https://github.com/yrtimiD/osm-bulk-tools
or you can send me your osm file, I'll try to convert and/or upload it.

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#16 2015-12-07 22:02:59

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

I would appreciate if you could revive that script and let me know how to construct the CSV file.

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#17 2015-12-08 22:47:42

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

Well, for start try to import your xml into google docs, or any other spreadsheet application, and then save it as csv.

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#18 2015-12-08 23:39:07

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

I'm unable to convert the XML to CVS without loosing all tags.

I can convert to CVS manually, if I knew what should be the contents of each CSV column

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#19 2015-12-09 22:11:38

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

to properly upload I need to know next:
1 item type: 0 for node, 1 for way, 2 for relation
2 item id
3 and actually all other tags you want to add/change like name, name:en, etc.

After you have them, just execute the tool:
OsmBulkTools.exe --csv-to-osm --in=file.csv --out=update.xml.osm --id="id" --type="type"

just replace text in "..." to your column names.
after executing you should have proper osm file which can be opened and uploaded in JOSM.

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#20 2015-12-10 10:11:55

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

Excellent.
A few questions:
* Where can I find the executable?
* Is there a need to include unmodified elements, such as unmodified nodes of a modified way?
* Is there a way to delete tags with this utility?

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#21 2015-12-11 00:54:47

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

Unmodified you can mark with special column, and pass this column name for one of parameters.
On github page you have a link to compiled executables and also usage examples.

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#22 2015-12-11 00:55:49

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

I think making value empty will remove this tag from osm

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#23 2015-12-12 15:41:46

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

@yrtimiD - Thanks for your help!

The update was done in two changesets: 35908519 and 35909345

Here are a few notes in case anyone will want to do similar tasks in the future:

  • Use Overpass Turbo to search and filter the objects of interest.

    • Include a csv format directive, such as

      [out:csv(::id, ::otype, "name", "name:he", "name:en" ; true; "," )];
    • Use "Export" -> "Data" -> "raw data directly from Overpass API" and "Save as" to a file with a .csv suffix

  • Edit the csv file in a spreadsheet editor or a text editor.

    • Replace "@otype" with "@type" in the header

    • Subtract 1 from the values in the "@type" column.
      OverpassTurbo's otype values are 1 for node, 2 for way, 3 for relation,
      while OsmBulkTools type values are 0 for node, 1 for way, 2 for relation.

    • Edit the values as needed.

    • Removing a value from a tag column removes the tag.

  • Use OsmBulkTools to convert the updated cvs file to osm format.

    OsmBulkTools --csv-to-osm --id="@id" --type="@type" --in="filename.csv" and --out="filename.osm"
  • Use JOSM to upload the update osm file

    • "File" -> "Open" the osm file created by OsmBulkTools

    • "File" -> "Upload Data"

    • Provide your OSM Username and Password, if requested.

    • Please provide a meaningful comment.

Last edited by zstadler (2016-02-16 21:41:32)

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#24 2015-12-12 16:00:26

yrtimiD
Moderator
From: Israel
Registered: 2010-10-08
Posts: 240

Re: Bilingual streets

Small correction:
you can use --csv-separator=, parameter for osmconvert to get a really comma-separated-values file.

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#25 2015-12-12 16:29:21

zstadler
Member
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Bilingual streets

Thanks!

I've updated the summary above.

I've also updated Bilingual nodes in changeset 35910828

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