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#26 2015-09-07 01:57:37

numide
Member
Registered: 2015-08-27
Posts: 6

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

People do not care about mapping but just about official names.....

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#27 2015-09-08 10:49:51

ButterflyOfFire_
Member
From: Béjaïa
Registered: 2015-08-22
Posts: 71
Website

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

I'm not quitting OSM, I edited my last post.
Yep, Some people are not mapping, they care only about "names" and reverting everything to arabic.

Please try to be a positive contributor. There are only 15 daily mappers in the Algerian map. "Only 15" !
Link : http://osmstats.neis-one.org/?item=coun … ry=Algeria

If you carry on "War Edits", I have to notify OSM to block temporarily edits in the algerian map.
Abdeljalil, try don't interfere with my contributions in Béjaïa. The wiki of OSM is not a "Coran", the admin level of the communes should be admin_level=8 and not as it is "proposed" in the Wiki.
Have you ever tried to add a contribution to the Wiki ... You did not ! I do ! And I read this table :

Link : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag: … _countries
And I opened a subject here : http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=33844
Titled : "Organizing boundaries and admin_level tags for Algeria OSM Map." and and had no comment from anyone.

Why you revert from admin_level 8 to 7 ? Just because it is "proposed" on the Wiki ? You're wrong !

And "fuck" ! After all ! We should have fun on OSM and avoid "War Edits" ya zah !

En plus SomeOneElse ta3 zebbi zad lna had a sujet ta3 chkoupi bache y dir lna guira ya zah* !
Koul wahed y mapi el jiha elli ya3rafha ... be el lougha Ech'koupistania wella Ezzetlania, el finiqiya ... Mappiw les village w troq, w koul wahed w yetnak m3a la région ta3o sinon ma nakhlasouche men had a sujet.

Levacher 3andou el haq, wenta ya Abdeljalil 3andek el haq ... Ma twelliwche les représentant du gouvernement en ligne. Mappiw b la façon elli ta3arfouha ... tebqa el mouchkila hadi ta3 le tag "name" ta3 zebbi ... ma trevertiw ma walou ! Pour le moment, on fait la paix ... on contribue à dessiner les millions de kilomètres qui reste fi blad Ch'koupistène ... quant au noms koul wahed yetnak.

Aya sahitou 3la el 3aqliya algérienne même sur OSM. Oui l'Algérie n'est pas arabe, oui l'Algérie est une création française ... oui nous parlons tout les dialects berbère et l'administration utilise le français et l'arabe bien que le français n'est ni une langue nationale ni officielle ... alors arrêtons de nous saper le moral avec un sujet débile comme celui là jusqu'à ce qu'une solution soit trouvée pour une carte multilingue et là chacun, comme un mouton se pliera aux règles du tag "name".

Je vous souhaiterez quand même une bonne journée les gars ! Je vous remercie pour vos contributions passées et futures ... alors continuons à mapper, les futures générations auront besoin de ce travail énorme que font "15 personnes" sur la carte ouverte d'Algérie.

Sahitou !

Last edited by ButterflyOfFire_ (2016-02-22 15:36:28)

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#28 2015-09-10 01:10:54

numide
Member
Registered: 2015-08-27
Posts: 6

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Je suis dorénavant connu CV comme Abu jahl...el fahem yefham...keep calm and continue mapping
Levacher

Last edited by Abu Jahl (2015-09-10 01:11:20)

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#29 2015-09-15 11:34:50

ButterflyOfFire_
Member
From: Béjaïa
Registered: 2015-08-22
Posts: 71
Website

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Abu Jahl wrote:

Je suis dorénavant connu CV comme Abu jahl...el fahem yefham...keep calm and continue mapping
Levacher

Coucou wink compris wink

Anyway, when we use another base layer, for example the cycle layer we can see that "name" is displayed in "both" arabic and latin caracters even if the present name tag is only in arabic with a translation in :fr :en :ber: kab

So there is no matter to double name or multiname in "name" tag.

Check this one : https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/3 … 4&layers=C

Here's another example :

1442313843-sans-titre.png

Notice how tag name of Jijel is rendered. This because "name=arabic-dash-latin". I think that we "must"/"have"/ avoid this method of naming. (We have to bannish this naming method).

Now look at How the name "Bejaia is rendered ! Cool we have the name in arabic and just under we have t in a fallback latin "english" without messin' with name tag !
Same happened with Akbou, El Kseur (as you see in the attached screenshot) in this base layer.

So keep it right, in my region I'm trying to do this :

name=in arabic
name:ar=in arabic
name:fr=in french
name:en=in english
name:kab=in latin based with special caracters for kabyle
name:ber=in Tifinagh caraters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh)

The render on OSM will be in arabic but in another base layer or custom layer could be in a custom languages (ISO1 + ISO2 lang).

we can keep naming in french, there's no problem, I mean if we do :

name=in french
name:ar=in arabic
name:fr=in french

Its okay, since if we wanna render the names officially with arabic n the first line and latin (fr, en) in the second line or even arabic in first line then Berber (in Tifnaghà in the second lne, I think that this could be done easily by typing something like :

Render Map DZ (X area) lang=en|ar or ar|ber or kab|ber

or in a single iso-lang name tag : Proccess it in "ber" for berber only. And the most nportant thing is to keep adding translations (if you want/can) to all what you name or use :

Nomino => http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nomino

Je ne sais pas ce que vous en pensez wink
Sahitou.

Last edited by ButterflyOfFire_ (2015-09-15 12:02:05)

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#30 2015-12-08 14:17:05

Superadlen
Member
From: Alger centre
Registered: 2015-06-04
Posts: 15

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

اخدم انتا معا هادو الناس حابسين علا جالهم الجزئر قعدت هي الاخيرة

شوفو صورة خاوتي

4CGdb85.jpg

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#31 2015-12-08 14:39:50

Superadlen
Member
From: Alger centre
Registered: 2015-06-04
Posts: 15

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

I'm with you my brother

abdeldjalil wrote:

ButterflyofFire , levacher why ???? In tag name : , other  country use local name exemple middle east and tunisia in arabic,  russia in russian , china in chinese , but algeria why you using french ???????? French is not official language in algeria,  please use arabic in tag name: , in algeria. mad mad

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#32 2016-01-07 10:00:12

ButterflyOfFire_
Member
From: Béjaïa
Registered: 2015-08-22
Posts: 71
Website

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Il faudra vraiment qu'on se mette d'accord concernant "name". Je propose un sondage avec vote pour le champs "name" afin d'en terminer.
Je tenais juste à vous dire que je suis contre la double nomination dans le champs name pour des raisons très naturelles à la base de données d'OpenStreetMap.
Abu Jahl est un des membres les plus actifs sur la carte d'Algérie. Il en a juste marre que d'autres "revertent" des changements majeures alors qu'ils n'ont contribué à dessiner aucun kilomètre.

Etes-vous d'accord pour un vote public en ligne ?

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#33 2016-01-08 13:42:51

Algebre gama
Member
Registered: 2015-06-03
Posts: 11

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Salut

ButterflyOfFire_ wrote:

Etes-vous d'accord pour un vote public en ligne ?

moi, je suis d'accord, mais!
combien de membre fréquente ce forum pour voter.?
je propose de contacter les 20, 30, 40 ou 50 premiers membres ( les plus productifs) par e-mail ou autre moyen.

voici une liste de 50 membre classés par nombre de changement (ajout, suppression ou modification sur OSM)

1    Sandervalya
2    test0022012
3    abdeldjalil
4    levacher
5    raison able
6    Superadlen
7    hiddeneyes02
8    ButterflyOfFire
9    Abu Jahl
10    dzosmapper
11    ulil
12    georhoko
13    Ali_Alg
14    Algebre gama
15    ButterflyOfFire_
16    HenrikKbh
17    West Lake
18    rama_neb
19    meppen7
20    abdelhadi_Laghzaiel
21    aias2002
22    kaliphe
23    alain2003
24    ouss21
25    René Hammoudi
26    Oberaffe
27    djibril
28    AMiNE AiSSAOUi
29    Sneetsher
30    mourad dahmani
31    Blaze21
32    sami2112
33    Alias-54
34    bachounda
35    immuno
36    redfateh
37    mentalist Dz
38    Yassine Kaidi
39    Algus
40    brahim001
41    yabdelouel
42    UnknownMapper
43    mourad78
44    madmen3
45    Mison
46    Aliferhat
47    boutegh
48    badro
49    wassil
50    Jeffdelonge



NB. il y 'a des membre cité 2 fois comme (levacher="Abu Jahl ") et (ButterflyOfFire =ButterflyOfFire_)

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#34 2016-01-08 14:08:46

Superadlen
Member
From: Alger centre
Registered: 2015-06-04
Posts: 15

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

bonjour

1 Arabe : Parce qu'il est une langue officielle en Algérie
2 Français : La plupart des gens algériens parlent français. ou utilise des application Gps en français
3 Anglais. Pour tous les peuples du monde quand il en visite en Algérie

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#35 2016-01-17 08:07:38

hiddeneyes02
Member
From: Tiaret
Registered: 2015-06-04
Posts: 9

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Re bonjour à tous,

Moi je pense que la réponse est claire.

name=in arabic
name:ar=in arabic
name:fr=in french
name:en=in english
name:kab=in latin based with special caracters for kabyle
name:ber=in Tifinagh caraters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh)

Celui qui n'a pas l'arabe sur son PC, son contribution en français (ou autre) est toujours la bienvenue, seulement il ne faut pas changer ce qu'a la tag name: déjà en arabe ou en kabyle vers une autre langue. A mon avis, c'est tout ce qu'on peut faire pour faire avancer les choses ici.

Cordialement.

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#36 2016-01-17 08:34:12

Algebre gama
Member
Registered: 2015-06-03
Posts: 11

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Classement du 16-01-2016

1 Sandervalya
2 test0022012
3 abdeldjalil
4 levacher
5 Superadlen
6 raison able
7 hiddeneyes02
8 Abu Jahl
9 ButterflyOfFire
10 dzosmapper
11 ulil
12 georhoko
13 Ali_Alg
14 Algebre gama
15 ButterflyOfFire_
16 HenrikKbh
17 West Lake
18 aias2002
19 rama_neb
20 meppen7
21 abdelhadi_Laghzaiel
22 ouss21
23 kaliphe
24 alain2003
25 René Hammoudi
26 Oberaffe
27 djibril
28 AMiNE AiSSAOUi
29 Sneetsher
30 mourad dahmani
31 sami2112
32 Blaze21
33 bachounda
34 Alias-54
35 immuno
36 redfateh
37 Abdou_AF
38 mourad78
39 mentalist Dz
40 Yassine Kaidi
41 Algus
42 brahim001
43 yabdelouel
44 UnknownMapper
45 madmen3
46 Mison
47 Aliferhat
48 badro
49 boutegh
50 wassil


Un petit changement par rapport au précédant (25-12-2015)

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#37 2016-01-18 07:41:17

Algebre gama
Member
Registered: 2015-06-03
Posts: 11

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Je propose de proposer aux administrateurs d'OSM d'ajouter un tag du type "use_lang" ou "render_lang" pour la génération des tuiles, (tilles rendering)

Dans ce cas on map comme suit:
name:(local name ar, ber,fr n'importe quoi)
name:ar=arabic
name:ber=amazigh
name:kab= tifinagh
name:fr= français

use_lang=ar,fr
ou
use_lang=fr,kab

exemple ville de Béjaia:

name: بجاية
name:ar=بجاية
name:fr=Béjaïa
name:ber=ⴱⴳⴰⵢⴻⵜ
name:kab=Vgayet
use_lang=ar,ber

Résultat (affichage)
بجاية ⴱⴳⴰⵢⴻⵜ
(si le tag "use_lang" est absent "name" est utilisé).

Qu’est ce qu'en gagne :
1- on met terme définitivement a la guerre des langues ( dans le mondes entier, pas uniquement chez nous).
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes

2- la partie logique de la base de données reste opérationnelle, (recherche, adressage etc.)

Last edited by Algebre gama (2016-01-18 17:51:29)

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#38 2016-01-19 12:38:12

ButterflyOfFire_
Member
From: Béjaïa
Registered: 2015-08-22
Posts: 71
Website

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Algebre gama wrote:

Je propose de proposer aux administrateurs d'OSM d'ajouter un tag du type "use_lang" ou "render_lang" pour la génération des tuiles, (tilles rendering)
...

Hi Algebre Gama,
I think that it is an excellent idea and will solve a lot of problems, in fact, if we can use, for rendering names, a tag like :

use_lang:iso1,iso2
or
use_lang:iso1,iso2,iso3

iso1,2,3 (could be official languages)

I'm thinking about, what if all the data inside an admin_level=2 could query a top level tag "off_lang" (official langages) and then having a render in these official langages whatever is written in the generic tag "name:"

Example :

name:Algeria
admin_level=2
off_lang=ar,ber

Then, the rendering of everything inside admin_level=2 in Algeria will be displayed in arabic language (first line) then Berber langage (second line).

Example :

Name=Béjaïa بجاية
name:ar=بجاية
name:ber=ⴱⴳⴰⵢⴻⵜ
name:kab=Vgayet

This "object" will query the admin_level=2 of Algeria and force the map to render it in arabic and berber (if berber will be official langage in Algeria of course) and overwrites the mixture sandwitch in the generic tag "name"

In the same time, based on the langage of the browser, displaying the map according the langage used in a browser + a fallback to english in case.
I know that this is a complex thing to do in top level, but just wondering if OSM can do it.

Salutations amicales.

Last edited by ButterflyOfFire_ (2016-01-19 12:40:17)

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#39 2016-01-19 15:08:12

Algebre gama
Member
Registered: 2015-06-03
Posts: 11

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

ButterflyOfFire_ wrote:

In the same time, based on the langage of the browser, displaying the map according the langage used in a browser + a fallback to english in case.
I know that this is a complex thing to do in top level, but just wondering if OSM can do it.

Salutations amicales.

Hi ButterflyOfFire_

(displaying the map according the langage used in a browser) that's impossible , because OSM map (all layers standard, transport...) is based on pre-generated tiles (a small picture in png or jpg) on every zoom level.
see here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_servers

what you see here http://mlm.jochentopf.com/ is different , this is a pre-generated tiles (map) without labels, and the labelling is generated on the fly according the language you choose in the text box.

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#40 2016-04-10 01:25:06

numide
Member
Registered: 2015-08-27
Posts: 6

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

...

Last edited by Abu Jahl (2016-04-10 01:35:38)

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#41 2016-08-10 22:28:55

ButterflyOfFire_
Member
From: Béjaïa
Registered: 2015-08-22
Posts: 71
Website

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Hi #OSMAlgeria,

This subject got more then 18000 views and finally we came up with something new so that everyone can understand name tagging.

Our friends Algebre_gama and RS232 came up with an idea and installed temporary OSM tile server to show to everyone the importance of sub name:xx=* tagging.

Now I'm asking everyone to forget about the general tag name=* and focus with us.

If we tag right in :
name:ar
name:kab
name:ber
name:fr
name:en

then we can get the rendered map in the desired language.
We invite everyone to check this work :

Link 1 maps by language tag : https://justpaste.it/x6ql
Link 2 : https://justpaste.it/x6qx

What do you think ?
Salutations amicales.

Last edited by ButterflyOfFire_ (2016-08-10 22:32:17)

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#42 2016-08-11 08:22:04

hiddeneyes02
Member
From: Tiaret
Registered: 2015-06-04
Posts: 9

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

I have no problem with that, and I'm already doing it.

But we shouldn't forget about the general tag, because it's important too.

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#43 2016-08-11 10:17:17

RS232DZ
New Member
Registered: 2016-06-05
Posts: 1

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Hi everybody,
In my opinion, osm is a universal map and should use a universal language in general name tag. The map of a country is not supposed to be browsed (only) by local users.
For example, in my case I will not use OSM to browse or integrate Russia or China map.
China Map
Now if a country or a local organisation want to use there local language(s) they can do it by generation there own tiles in there own local osm server (of course if the general names are translated in this language)
Cordialy

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#44 2016-08-12 11:51:57

ButterflyOfFire_
Member
From: Béjaïa
Registered: 2015-08-22
Posts: 71
Website

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Hi, HiddenEyes,

Okay, after all the efforts we are doing it seems that some of us have a stone instead of a mind.

Ok So, make it sandwitch in your region. Not inside Bejaia boundary and don't be surprised in the future when you're going to revert everything to a standardised level of mapping.

I'm happy that you're okay for name:xx tagging and you understand the power and the relevance of this tagging method but are you keeping the idea of "sandwitch non queryable no meaning name tagging" ?

Do you wanna make it render like Morocco Map ? Go and map there, simple as that.
Do you wanna make it render in arabic only ? Focus on name:ar, simple as that. If you want it in arabic only, because arabic language is a state language in Algeria, know that Tamazight or Berber in official too since 2016. To make it sandwitch, I'm against personally.

By making the general tag name a sandwitch, you mislead new contributors and they will not focus on enriching database with sub name:ar,kab,ber,en,fr

By naming Algiers, for example in arabic name=الجزائر only because arabic is official, you push other kabyle and berber contributors to come and revert in berber and Tamazight and you push GPS users and contributors to come and revert because of UTF-8 bizzare letters on a lot of apps. And you push sandwitch supporters to come and make name=sandwitch-non-meaning-in-database.

And finally, you push contributors to forget about clever tagging name:xx=specific-lang

Yes name=* is important and shows how wars in thirld world countries could start because of "characters, languages and culture" and how fragile they are (we are).

May be one day a Wikipedia like : ar.openstreetmap.org or whatever-fucking-language.openstreetmap.org if fucking Algeria Telecom or a fucking algerian university could donate servers to OpenStreetMap Foundation. For now, nothing ! And by the openness and universality of OSM, they offered us the possibily to make things possible without an Algeria Telecom and without any support from the algerian government who is spending money in dancing and singing. (Assuming responsability of my words as an algerian OSM contributor).

Anyway, happy mapping !


hiddeneyes02 wrote:

I have no problem with that, and I'm already doing it.

But we shouldn't forget about the general tag, because it's important too.

Last edited by ButterflyOfFire_ (2016-08-12 12:10:18)

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#45 2016-08-12 17:00:05

yamada-as
Member
Registered: 2015-08-21
Posts: 3

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Let me quote my self here from my previous comment

mx3 wrote:

- I agree with Sandervalya about using bi-lang or tri-lang depending on the region. Even going far using single language, exactly the local spoken language used in the street (Arabic or Berber), same as locals call the place.

If we can't come up with an agreement, may be we should leave `name` tag empty? Let the end user choose what to use. (Anyway, most gonna use `name:en` as fallback)

So ButterflyOfFire_ count me +1 for that idea you mention.

ButterflyOfFire_ wrote:

Now I'm asking everyone to forget about the general tag name=* and focus with us.

If we tag right in :
name:ar
name:kab
name:ber
name:fr
name:en

I'm confident that may be the best way to carry on, till we get our selves (our people basically) to work as ants and not like spiders.

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#46 2016-08-25 12:53:29

ButterflyOfFire_
Member
From: Béjaïa
Registered: 2015-08-22
Posts: 71
Website

Re: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria

Hi,

Carte d'Algérie sans sandwitch (just tag it right) :

Carte d'Algérie en caractère arabe :
sans_titre1.png

Carte d'Algérie en Tamazight (caractère latin) :
sans_titre2.png

Carte d'Algérie en caractère Tifinagh :
sans_titre3.png

All data source provided by OpenStreetMap and Contributors
* (name:ar=*, name:kab=*, name:ber=*)

Salutations amicales

Last edited by ButterflyOfFire_ (2016-08-25 13:05:19)

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