Worldwide routable Garmin maps: URL REMOVED

Fod · 2013-05-06 17:50:38

Splitter question:

I have an old (but waterproof) Garmin GPS V that has served me well on my motorbike. I want to upgrade it with a OSM map, as I have had great value of Lambertus' service on my Garmin nüvi 30.

The GPS V has very limited capacity, so I guess that I will have to use the Splitter program - but is this possible with Lambertus' maps? As I understand, the tiles on http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl are the result of Splitter's work - so if I want even smaller tiles, I have to start over by myself? Is this correct?

In any case, advise on how to produce the exact same maps as Lambertus' - just with smaller tiles - is appreciated.

BR,
--
Jakob

Last edited by Fod (2013-05-06 19:02:58)

Beddhist · 2013-05-06 20:22:32

Hi Hack,

For ease of use I suggest you build a custom map on the site, using the manual tile selection option and also make sure you choose the 2nd option "testing new style". This will give you a single file to download, gmapsupp.img, which you put in the Garmin folder on the micro SD card. If the Russia maps already on the GPS overlap they will need to be disabled.

I have a Zumo 660 and OSM maps work well.

Cheers,
Peter.

TJNoffy · 2013-05-06 22:02:27

Per Beddist's suggestion, I'm reposting a question here about using Lambertus's Garmin maps on my Garmin Quest. Here's my orginal post:

I'm new to OSM. Have been looking for a way to get current maps for my older Garmin Quest (for my Harley) since they stopped providing maps for it in the right format after the 2009 map set.
I did get a set of routable maps (tiles) downloaded for my area of the US from garmin.openstreetmap.nl. Installed them and finally figured out how to see them in MapSource (View\Switch to Product menu item). At this point I'm assuming I would be able to upload them to my Quest, but...
Now I'm noticing a lack of street numbers on maps. I tried using MapSource to find my address in fairly rural Virginia, my mom's address in the heavily populated Washington, DC area, and even 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in DC (the White House). No go. Streets in general were found, but not street numbers.
So, is this the norm for OSM maps, maybe because they're still maturing and waiting for volunteers to provide street number data? Or did I not download the right format of map? Maybe I need another data file from the site to add street numbers to these maps?
In any event, it's great that the maps are routable, but if I can't find specific addresses, I'm not sure what use they will be in my Quest when trying to get from point A to point B. I'm sure I could add POI's for the places I know I go to, but what if I get an address for someplace I've never been while I'm out riding?
Thanks for any advice you can give!

So it was suggested that I try searching for some of the same addresses on the OSM site, which I did, and I found them... well, at least last Friday I did. The OSM site map doesn't seem to want to find specific addresses today. (Is that a common problem on OSM?)

Anyway, I'd like to know this: If I can find a specific address on the OSM site map, should I be able to find them in MapSource (and hopefully on my GPS) using maps downloaded from garmin.openstreetmap.nl? Just trying to determine if I can extend the life of my old Quest (which works fine except for the old Garmin maps).

Thank you!

Beddhist · 2013-05-07 06:01:40

Fod wrote:

I have an old (but waterproof) Garmin GPS V

Whoa, a blast from the past. I bought one of those 2nd hand in the UAE and used it on my bike trip until Thailand.

Fod wrote:

The GPS V has very limited capacity

You said it. I found that using a Garmin city map the CPU was too slow to auto-route. Unless you want to display the map only and not use routing I strongly suggest you use the Nuvi or perhaps shell out for a low-end Zumo. Nuvi 500 can probably be found 2nd hand and is waterproof.

Splitter is used to split OSM data, not Garmin maps.

To produce my own ad-hoc maps I download OSM data with JOSM and the alternate download plugin. I have the mkgmap configuration files that ligfietser and I have developed for Lambertus' new style and a batch file that starts the compilation. I just drop an OSM file onto the batch file and that gives me a bunch of files which I can then install into Mapsource, from where they can be loaded into the GPS. It's fiddly and longwinded to set up, but now it's almost drag and drop.

Are you sure the tiles from the site won't fit into your GPS V?

Cheers,
Peter.

Last edited by Beddhist (2013-05-07 06:04:12)

ligfietser · 2013-05-07 08:37:41

TJNoffy wrote:

Anyway, I'd like to know this: If I can find a specific address on the OSM site map, should I be able to find them in MapSource (and hopefully on my GPS) using maps downloaded from garmin.openstreetmap.nl? Just trying to determine if I can extend the life of my old Quest (which works fine except for the old Garmin maps).

Only if the specific housenumber is also given on OSM, you should be able to find it in Mapsource (but no guarantee that it works, the housenumber search is still experimental).

For the Netherlands it's a different case, all addresses from the Dutch BAG database are added to the OSM data, so there you are able to find more addresses than are added to OSM. Maybe in other countries such open datasets are also available, so if anyone know such source and can convert it to xml / osm format it can be added too.

TJNoffy · 2013-05-08 18:47:10

ligfietser wrote:

TJNoffy wrote:
Anyway, I'd like to know this: If I can find a specific address on the OSM site map, should I be able to find them in MapSource (and hopefully on my GPS) using maps downloaded from garmin.openstreetmap.nl? Just trying to determine if I can extend the life of my old Quest (which works fine except for the old Garmin maps).
Only if the specific housenumber is also given on OSM, you should be able to find it in Mapsource (but no guarantee that it works, the housenumber search is still experimental).
For the Netherlands it's a different case, all addresses from the Dutch BAG database are added to the OSM data, so there you are able to find more addresses than are added to OSM. Maybe in other countries such open datasets are also available, so if anyone know such source and can convert it to xml / osm format it can be added too.

Thank you for your reply, ligfietser. I've downloaded a two custom map files (using selected tiles) and cannot get either of them to find specific street numbers in MapSource, although I can find the same addresses on openstreetmap.org. I suppose that the street number data just isn't being included in the maps or isn't recognized by MapSource.

If there is something else I should be trying to make this work, I'd appreciate any suggestions. Otherwise I will just try periodically and hope that this glitch is fixed one day.

One the plus side, I did make some edits to the OSM map regarding my town and neighborhood, so hopefully that helps!

ligfietser · 2013-05-08 20:19:21

TJNoffy wrote:

Thank you for your reply, ligfietser. I've downloaded a two custom map files (using selected tiles) and cannot get either of them to find specific street numbers in MapSource, although I can find the same addresses on openstreetmap.org. I suppose that the street number data just isn't being included in the maps or isn't recognized by MapSource.
If there is something else I should be trying to make this work, I'd appreciate any suggestions. Otherwise I will just try periodically and hope that this glitch is fixed one day.
One the plus side, I did make some edits to the OSM map regarding my town and neighborhood, so hopefully that helps!

Your help and editing is appreciated!
Can you give an example of an address that you can find on OSM but not in Mapsource?

TJNoffy · 2013-05-08 22:23:57

Can you give an example of an address that you can find on OSM but not in Mapsource?

Yes. 5312 Olde Towne Rd, Westmoreland, The Hamlet, James City County, Virginia, 23188, United States of America

I'm not sure where "The Hamlet" comes from. Not a location identifier known to me. I noticed a similar name in the address for my home, too. The "Westmoreland" part of the address is the neighborhood across the street from the fire station, but has nothing to do with the address in question. Which objects in the OSM maps would account for these?

This is a fire station in our area, as an example. But my OSM maps cover from Virginia to Wisconsin (for a trip I'm planning), and I cannot find ANY street numbers I search for in MapSource. I use the Garmin maps and street numbers work fine, although the map is from 2009.

Beddhist · 2013-05-09 04:31:26

I don't know where Nominatim gets this number from. It is NOT in the OSM data. If you click the search result Nominatim will show you more details. The Hamlet is a node on the other side of the highway.

There appears to be more to addressing than what is described in the wiki about house numbers.

ligfietser · 2013-05-09 08:51:19

Westmoreland is also a place node, which lies the closest to that address: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2293771791
It seems there are no housenumbers at all on the OSM.org map, otherwise you have to see the numbers.
Maybe Nominatim uses an external database. Another thing that the Garmin OSM map needs is district or city boundaries to lookup in which city this street is located.
If nothing is found, it starts guessing which place node is the nearest, resulting in those errors.

If you want good address search, you need to import those city boundaries into the map as well as housenumbers, otherwise the map is pretty useless.
So you better use the old City Navigator for address search or wait until someone has imported that data.

Last edited by ligfietser (2013-05-09 08:54:18)

Vclaw · 2013-05-09 11:21:57

In the USA, Nominatim also uses TIGER address data. See this question, and answer: https://help.openstreetmap.org/question … m-instance
I presume that's where it finds that house number.

ligfietser · 2013-05-09 11:57:35

Thanks Vclaw. How accurate are these data? Can we import this Tiger address data and convert it to osm format to be added to the OSM data (I mean for the garmin generic maps, not to the osm database)? Any ideas?

Beddhist · 2013-05-09 12:01:18

That explains it. The data is in Nominatim, but not the OSM database. The Garmkin maps contain only OSM data.

ligfietser · 2013-05-09 12:08:33

Beddhist wrote:

That explains it. The data is in Nominatim, but not the OSM database. The Garmkin maps contain only OSM data.

Except for the Netherlands, we added address data from the Dutch Cadastre to the OSM extract to improve address search and I could imagine this could also be done with the US Tiger data. So any help to deliver such address data in osm format would be appreciated.

TJNoffy · 2013-05-10 16:48:57

Thanks, everyone. The address data on the OSM site coming from a separate source (Nominatim) would certainly explain why the address data isn't available in the Garmin extracts I have. I was going to load the OSM maps into my Garmin Quest, just to see if street numbers worked (even though they don't in MapSource), but I'm now fairly certain that they won't.

Yes, it would be nice if the TIGER address data could be included with the Garmin maps, but that's way over my head. Does anyone know how feasible that is?

I'm willing to keep my Quest on life support if it seems like something that can be done, but if not, I'll eventually have to pull the plug on it, depending on how many more streets and neighborhoods that I search for and it cannot find with it's 2009 maps. Sooner or later it's not going to be worth keeping.

Thank you, again!

TJNoffy · 2013-05-15 15:14:03

Just a follow up to see if anyone had any comment on the feasibility of including TIGER address data in the Garmin map extracts. This is way over my head, but if it isn't too terribly difficult to achieve, my guess is that it would be very useful for road navigation by those who still use older Garmins that use non-NT maps.

Thank you!

By the way, I'd be willing to give this a go myself with some guidance, assuming it's feasible. I have worked in information technology for 30 years, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with computers and software.

Is it basically a matter of getting the map file(s) and address data and using some specific software to merge the two, or am I oversimplifying this?

Last edited by TJNoffy (2013-05-15 17:09:51)

ligfietser · 2013-05-15 18:54:37

Maybe you can browse or ask around on the OSM mailing lists, for instance the US section http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/
I really dont know how the TIGER data structure is built, do they have every single housenumber as node, then it only has to be transformed into addr:housenumber=x addr:street=y so it can be merged. If they have only address ranges I dont know if mkgmap (the software that makes the garmin maps) can use it.

Drazhar · 2013-05-19 09:41:56

Hi,

first of all: I love the Web UI and the maps!

One thing I miss are climbing spots. I use the Garmin quite often for climbing, but the tag "sport=climbing" isn't on the map. It would be great if it would be added

keep up the great work!

mapper_07 · 2013-05-20 18:10:02

hi
thanks for this great service! the maps work nearly perfect on my nüvi 205 and 1390! Also address search is working except a strange behavior that in my country (austria) the borders of the municipalities are tagged "Gemeinde xyz" and so i also have to search for ex for "Gemeinde Wolkersdorf im Weinviertel" ... which is annoying. Is this the correct tagging scheme? (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/106781) Also i can't find villages which have admin_level 10 as border. (for ex. Pfösing http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1627895 which is contained in the previous admin level 8 boundary)

Another small point is that the nüvi's claim about "too long routes". my holiday route to Lake Garda or Triest for example don't work. I thought that the img file maybe contains to much data so i tried to reduce it by removing tiles but no change.
Keep on this great service!

Pan · 2013-05-21 03:56:56

Hi, Lambertus. Thanks for the service. I am using your maps since 4 years now.

Adding elevation contours would be a great idea!

ligfietser · 2013-05-21 10:43:03

mapper_07 wrote:

hi
thanks for this great service! the maps work nearly perfect on my nüvi 205 and 1390! Also address search is working except a strange behavior that in my country (austria) the borders of the municipalities are tagged "Gemeinde xyz" and so i also have to search for ex for "Gemeinde Wolkersdorf im Weinviertel" ... which is annoying. Is this the correct tagging scheme? (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/106781) Also i can't find villages which have admin_level 10 as border. (for ex. Pfösing http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1627895 which is contained in the previous admin level 8 boundary)
Another small point is that the nüvi's claim about "too long routes". my holiday route to Lake Garda or Triest for example don't work. I thought that the img file maybe contains to much data so i tried to reduce it by removing tiles but no change.
Keep on this great service!

Removing "Gemeinde" (and also "Stadt") from the address search string has already been mentioned some time ago on the mkgmap list, see http://www.mail-archive.com/mkgmap-dev@ … 10981.html. However it hasnt been entered in the default style, I will ask on the mkgmap list to improve this.
Also admin level 10 can be put before admin_level 8, so the address rules would be like this:

mkgmap:country=AUT & mkgmap:city!=* & mkgmap:admin_level10=* { set mkgmap:city='${mkgmap:admin_level10|subst:Gemeinde |subst:Stadt }' }
mkgmap:country=AUT & mkgmap:city!=* & mkgmap:admin_level8=* { set mkgmap:city='${mkgmap:admin_level8|subst:Gemeinde |subst:Stadt }' }

Unfortunately we cant do anything about the long route calculation, it depends on the gps unit if it can calculate it or not. Using more viapoints or cutting the route in several routes is the only workaround.

Edit: changes have been committed, so in the next map updates probably visible

Last edited by ligfietser (2013-05-21 21:55:47)

mapper_07 · 2013-05-22 08:22:27

Amazing ! Thanks a lot! I will try it
Another small thing which i found is that small villages tagged with place=village and no border are not found in address search. (ex: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/59841568 and all small villages in that rural area) But they are found under "city search"

ligfietser · 2013-05-22 08:53:15

Thats because there is not enough information entered on OSM, the address search (when there are no housenumbers available on OSM) "guesses" in which place a street is located by looking at the admin_level=8 boundaries: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/959849. (in the coming updates it will start looking for 10 in Austria first, if that isnt found it takes level 8). If there is no boundary at all, it will search for the places which lies the closest to that street (which could be the wrong village node if that lies closer).

I dont know how or if the administrative districts in Austria are related to the place names and addresses, if they are not entered on OSM, you will get garbage in, garbage out

mapper_07 · 2013-05-23 22:04:31

something must went wrong with the latest map update ... now there is no address search at all (can't even select a country) (Austria map build today)

another question which comes into my mind: is the destination tag for routing informations used? (process-dest or something like that)

ligfietser · 2013-05-24 13:53:01

Mapper, just checked the Austrian map but I can select a country and find addresses.

Maybe Lambertus can check (and add the following options if not used?)
--process-destination
--process-exits

Last edited by ligfietser (2013-05-24 13:53:22)

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Re: Worldwide routable Garmin maps: URL REMOVED

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