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#1 2010-12-04 16:04:31

adrukh
Member
Registered: 2010-03-19
Posts: 86

Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

Hi,

Following the tragic events of this week, a lot of people are looking for ways to provide help in any way possible.
I was thinking about mapping the area of the disaster - what survived the fires and what didn't, where are the new boundaries of the forest, where will young trees be planted, etc. All mapping is planned to commence once the fire department's work is done.

Any additional ideas?

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#2 2010-12-04 18:33:42

talkat
Member
Registered: 2009-03-06
Posts: 381

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

adrukh wrote:

Hi,

Following the tragic events of this week, a lot of people are looking for ways to provide help in any way possible.
I was thinking about mapping the area of the disaster - what survived the fires and what didn't, where are the new boundaries of the forest, where will young trees be planted, etc. All mapping is planned to commence once the fire department's work is done.

Any additional ideas?

It would be nice to have a snapshot of what we had before the fire.
I'm not sure all the tracks and paths will survive this fire.
These would need to be deleted when they become irrelevant, and new ones created when they're built.

talkat.

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#3 2010-12-04 22:54:54

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 513

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

No additional idea but I will help.

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#4 2010-12-09 17:13:04

dimka
Member
Registered: 2010-04-01
Posts: 257

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

One thing we probably can do right now:

Apparently, the ITC is changing the recommended route of Shvil Israel. See here, last bullet, here's the map.
Any suggestions on how to set up this alternative route? Perhaps just an additional relation "Shvil Israel: Carmel Bypass"?

Last edited by dimka (2010-12-09 17:13:50)

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#5 2010-12-09 17:20:59

talkat
Member
Registered: 2009-03-06
Posts: 381

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

dimka wrote:

One thing we probably can do right now:

Apparently, the ITC is changing the recommended route of Shvil Israel. See here, last bullet, here's the map.
Any suggestions on how to set up this alternative route? Perhaps just an additional relation "Shvil Israel: Carmel Bypass"?

Yes, probably a new relation, with the same osmc:symbol as Shvil Israel, and with a name like "INT Carmel Alternative Route"

talkat.

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#6 2010-12-09 17:26:37

dimka
Member
Registered: 2010-04-01
Posts: 257

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

talkat wrote:
dimka wrote:

One thing we probably can do right now:

Apparently, the ITC is changing the recommended route of Shvil Israel. See here, last bullet, here's the map.
Any suggestions on how to set up this alternative route? Perhaps just an additional relation "Shvil Israel: Carmel Bypass"?

Yes, probably a new relation, with the same osmc:symbol as Shvil Israel, and with a name like "INT Carmel Alternative Route"

talkat.

Why with the same symbol? AFAIK, there will not be a physical marking for the alternative route.

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#7 2010-12-09 17:37:48

dimka
Member
Registered: 2010-04-01
Posts: 257

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

talkat wrote:
dimka wrote:

One thing we probably can do right now:

Apparently, the ITC is changing the recommended route of Shvil Israel. See here, last bullet, here's the map.
Any suggestions on how to set up this alternative route? Perhaps just an additional relation "Shvil Israel: Carmel Bypass"?

Yes, probably a new relation, with the same osmc:symbol as Shvil Israel, and with a name like "INT Carmel Alternative Route"

talkat.

I'm on to it.

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#8 2010-12-09 17:45:45

talkat
Member
Registered: 2009-03-06
Posts: 381

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

dimka wrote:

One thing we probably can do right now:

Apparently, the ITC is changing the recommended route of Shvil Israel. See here, last bullet, here's the map.
Any suggestions on how to set up this alternative route? Perhaps just an additional relation "Shvil Israel: Carmel Bypass"?

Also in ynet.

talkat.

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#9 2010-12-09 17:54:08

talkat
Member
Registered: 2009-03-06
Posts: 381

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

dimka wrote:

Why with the same symbol? AFAIK, there will not be a physical marking for the alternative route.

The same symbol because in the meantime it's Shvil Israel.
A different relation because it's not part of the "main" path of Shvil Israel.

Of course, the same way segment should be in another relation for the lwn (green/red/blue/black)


Speaking of Shvil Israel...
At some point we might want/need to split it to several smaller relations.
As it is, it has more than 500 segments (561 at last count), which makes editing it cumbersome.

talkat.

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#10 2010-12-09 18:26:05

dimka
Member
Registered: 2010-04-01
Posts: 257

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

OK, here goes
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1312377

Please have a look, I have probably missed something up...

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#11 2011-05-17 00:04:06

yankale
Member
Registered: 2011-05-16
Posts: 1

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

Your info. about the bypass is outdated. As expected the bypass does not exist.

And BTW: The copying of proposed bypass map is a violation of copyrights of the ITC ad the SPNI sad . The same goes for the INT unless you can back it up with complete GPS data.

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#12 2011-05-17 05:15:31

talkat
Member
Registered: 2009-03-06
Posts: 381

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

yankale wrote:

Your info. about the bypass is outdated. As expected the bypass does not exist.

If you have solid knowledge, then please update the map.

yankale wrote:

And BTW: The copying of proposed bypass map is a violation of copyrights of the ITC ad the SPNI sad . The same goes for the INT unless you can back it up with complete GPS data.

As far as I could tell, all of the INT was created using gps recordings, and was made by people who actually traveled it.


Again, if you have some solid knowledge that says otherwise, please present it here.

You present yourself as having lots of knowledge, and I'm sure OSM would benefit from it.

talkat.

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#13 2011-05-17 09:21:02

dimka
Member
Registered: 2010-04-01
Posts: 257

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

yankale wrote:

Your info. about the bypass is outdated. As expected the bypass does not exist.

And BTW: The copying of proposed bypass map is a violation of copyrights of the ITC ad the SPNI sad . The same goes for the INT unless you can back it up with complete GPS data.

Dear yankale,

may I turn your attention to the fact that the image of the proposed route has been published on the website of TEVA without any proper copyright attribution (by now the image is removed). Worse, that image is still available at
http://shvilisrael.myfastforum.org/view … =12&order=
posted by a user named yankale, also without any copyright notice whatsoever.

In any case, I have created the relation for the INT bypass based on the YNET article, which contains the verbal description of the route, using the above mentioned map image for reference (as I said, there was no copyright notice present and therefore there was no way to tell whether the image was copyrighted). Other than that, I have used only the data allowed data (i.e. aerial imagery, existing tracks and GPS traces) in order to create the relation. If you claim that this is still a violation, please tell us.

dimka

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#14 2018-10-22 18:00:58

tdctdctdc
Member
Registered: 2017-05-23
Posts: 23

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

There are currently several paths in the Carmel area that are still marked with access=no, and note=* referring to the ITC bypass suggestion (see https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/D0s for example).

After a recent walk in the area (and a previous one in 2017), it seems to me that all forest and path restoration work is finished. I have not personally walked all of the above ways, but for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/314862722 is definitely open.

Should we remove the access=no and note=* tags?

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#15 2018-10-23 15:55:31

anonymous_gushdan_mapper
Member
Registered: 2016-12-17
Posts: 36

Re: Carmel Forest on fire - how can OSM help?

I think that If you verified the path is accessible and there are no signs saying you're not allowed to walk there you can definitely remove these tags.

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