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#101 2010-12-13 22:38:35

SunCobalt
Member
From: Eislingen
Registered: 2010-01-09
Posts: 3,810

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Dank wicking sind jetzt DACH (DE noch ungekürzt) und weitere Länder mit Angabe von Datum und Rang online

http://odbl.info.nu/


Thomas

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#102 2010-12-13 23:15:50

edwin-ldbg
Member
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 1,492

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

SunCobalt wrote:
edwin-ldbg wrote:

Mach mal ein Welt Zustimmung mit Rang :-D


Daran hatte ich auch schon gedacht...so aus Spaß. Ich versuche es mal. Das kann aber ein paar Tage dauern.

Die Top 10 Welt-Openstreetmap Verrückte könnte man dann für das News Blog befragen für eine kleine Reportage. Genau so den erstplatzierten in Deutschland.

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#103 2010-12-14 00:48:57

fkv
Member
From: Wien
Registered: 2010-08-12
Posts: 772
Website

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

edwin-ldbg wrote:

Die Top 10 Welt-Openstreetmap Verrückte könnte man dann für das News Blog befragen für eine kleine Reportage. Genau so den erstplatzierten in Deutschland.

Für einen Turing-Test nimmst du besser die User aus der 2. Reihe, bei den ersten wär's zu einfach.

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#104 2010-12-14 07:49:39

juson
Member
Registered: 2010-04-27
Posts: 454

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Korrektur:

Belgien: Gesamt 2038 davon 648 Zustimmer und 1390 (noch) Nicht-Zustimmer


@Thomas,
Ihr wart ja richtig fleißig :-), bin unterwegs, ev. am Wochenende. Das hier kann ich zwischendurch mal machen.

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#105 2010-12-14 08:38:37

wicking
Member
From: El Hierro
Registered: 2010-03-06
Posts: 455

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Gewinner ist Italien! Gratulation (fast alles grün).

Verlierer sind ein paar ganz kleine Länder, weil dort ein paar wenige Menschen, die viel gemacht haben, viel mehr ins Gewicht fallen. Oder Länder, wo große Importe noch nicht der Lizenzumstellung zugestimmt haben.

Mit Gewinner/Verlierer meine ich, dass nach der Lizenzumstellung viele Daten erhalten bleiben oder verloren werden. Aber wer weiß das schon genau. Noch sind wir ja in der freiwilligen Zustimmungsphase – auch wenn die nächste eigentlich schon hätte beginnen sollen.

Last edited by wicking (2010-12-14 21:31:48)

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#106 2010-12-14 09:38:44

juson
Member
Registered: 2010-04-27
Posts: 454

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Italien: Gesamt 5159 davon 1888 Zustimmer und 3271 (noch) Nicht-Zustimmer

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#107 2010-12-14 12:30:17

DieterTD
Member
From: Oberlausitz
Registered: 2008-07-14
Posts: 122

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

SunCobalt wrote:

Dank wicking sind jetzt DACH (DE noch ungekürzt) und weitere Länder mit Angabe von Datum und Rang online

http://odbl.info.nu/


Oh, in PL stehe ich auf Rang 14 und in CZ immerhin noch auf der 80....

Danke fürs online-stellen!

Gruß, Dieter

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#108 2010-12-14 15:57:59

grothauu
Member
Registered: 2010-05-18
Posts: 81

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

In Bulgarien hat 1 User 48% der Nodes und noch nicht zugestimmt. Gibt es dort Tierheime?

Uli

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#109 2010-12-14 19:35:18

fsteggink
Member
From: Utrecht
Registered: 2010-02-13
Posts: 240
Website

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

wicking wrote:

Verlierer sind ein paar ganz kleine Länder. Unter anderem aber auch die Niederlande, dort wird auf der Mailingliste massiv gegen die ODbL-Zustimmung geworben – schätze das liegt daran. Vielleicht aber auch an den Importen, die nicht unter der ODbL stehen.

Huh? Why do you think we're actively rallying up against the ODbL in the Netherlands? That is not the case. I find it particularly offensive if you call us "losers", because we look at the process differently, precisely because "our" stats are skewed by a couple of large imports. Is this a match? Are we suddenly winners if the 3dShapes account owner agrees with the ODbL, because it accounts for a whopping 86% of nodes? That is just ridiculous.

If you filter out the weight of the imports (accounts 3dShapes, AND, AND_fixbot and nijmegen), a completely different picture emerges. If you look at the last edits only, then you'll see that about 44% of the nodes come from people who voted in favor of the ODbL / CT. See the last set of numbers. These numbers are based on contributors who have contributed at least 100 nodes, but this is close enough to the overall count.

Everyone has his own opinion, and is certainly entitled to do so, but what we don't like is that something is being shoved upon us. We also think that the current way in which statistics are presented to us put too much way on the size of the contribution (node count), but don't pay enough respect to the community members themselves. Besides, most of the opposition is against the CT, not the ODbL per se. Unfortunately it is not possible to cast a vote for the ODbL alone.

Frank

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#110 2010-12-14 20:05:35

SunCobalt
Member
From: Eislingen
Registered: 2010-01-09
Posts: 3,810

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

I think you missed the point. If you would read the whole thread and other here, you would notice that the disadvantages of these stats where mentioned and discussed several times. To be honest, noone can calculate reliable stats as the technical/legal changeover terms how to handle objects with an mixed edit history are not yet clear enough. The stats where not made to express a specific opinion pro or con the OdBL or the CTs. Take me, I am recommending both, the ODbL and CTs, and take juson, who is against both. We all are playing with the numbers here. At the beginning the stats were only calculated for AT/CH/DE. Other stats were made just for information purpose or call it just for fun. And noone called you looser. If you would make a ranking by agreement with these stats, you would not win. This has the same importance as I would say we would loose today in a outside temperature contest Amsterdam vs Berlin. And as far as I know noone from here has affronted the dutch community with this stat.

Last edited by SunCobalt (2010-12-14 20:13:38)


Thomas

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#111 2010-12-14 20:12:14

fsteggink
Member
From: Utrecht
Registered: 2010-02-13
Posts: 240
Website

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Well, I read us being called "losers" (Verlierer), and that there is apparently a massive campaign going on against the ODbL and the CT in the Netherlands. I found it necessary to correct that.

The fun thing with statistics is that everyone can interpret them the way he sees fit.

Frank

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#112 2010-12-14 20:22:11

SunCobalt
Member
From: Eislingen
Registered: 2010-01-09
Posts: 3,810

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

fsteggink wrote:

The fun thing with statistics is that everyone can interpret them the way he sees fit.

Churchill's saying is quite often used in Germany ""the only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself". So don't worry, we have currently enough to do with blaming us Austrians/Swiss/Germans each other for agreeing or not agreeing. Once we finished and found a consensus, we may turn to you guys if we still want to continue blaming someone for something. But don't expected us in the next 2 or 3 years ;-)


Thomas

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#113 2010-12-14 21:29:59

wicking
Member
From: El Hierro
Registered: 2010-03-06
Posts: 455

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

fsteggink wrote:

Well, I read us being called "losers" (Verlierer), and that there is apparently a massive campaign going on against the ODbL and the CT in the Netherlands. I found it necessary to correct that.

The fun thing with statistics is that everyone can interpret them the way he sees fit.

Frank

Sorry for my missunderstandable post above. I really didn't mean it like the Dutch people are loosers or something. I just wanted to say in short words which country will "survive" the change to odbl and which one not. But even that is not sure, as we don't know what will happen after the mandatory phase begins and if or if not all other data (which one exactly?) is deleted.

And I think that my interpretation of a massive campaign agains odbl was really caused by missunderstanding the Dutch text, because I just didn't understand everything on Dutch. Here on the German forum we have a lot of mappers who are against the licence change, so maybe it's the same everywhere. We have campaigns agains and for the licence change.

I'll take it all back and remove the text.

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#114 2010-12-14 21:45:04

edwin-ldbg
Member
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 1,492

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Well, I read us being called "losers" (Verlierer), and that there is apparently a massive campaign going on against the ODbL and the CT in the Netherlands. I found it necessary to correct that.

Gib deine Stimme für Geert Wilders und du bist ein Gewinner!

Last edited by edwin-ldbg (2010-12-14 21:45:56)

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#115 2010-12-14 22:13:09

fsteggink
Member
From: Utrecht
Registered: 2010-02-13
Posts: 240
Website

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

wicking wrote:
fsteggink wrote:

Well, I read us being called "losers" (Verlierer), and that there is apparently a massive campaign going on against the ODbL and the CT in the Netherlands. I found it necessary to correct that.

The fun thing with statistics is that everyone can interpret them the way he sees fit.

Frank

Sorry for my missunderstandable post above. I really didn't mean it like the Dutch people are loosers or something. I just wanted to say in short words which country will "survive" the change to odbl and which one not. But even that is not sure, as we don't know what will happen after the mandatory phase begins and if or if not all other data (which one exactly?) is deleted.

And I think that my interpretation of a massive campaign agains odbl was really caused by missunderstanding the Dutch text, because I just didn't understand everything on Dutch. Here on the German forum we have a lot of mappers who are against the licence change, so maybe it's the same everywhere. We have campaigns agains and for the licence change.

I'll take it all back and remove the text.

OK, apologies accepted. smile Let's not get too worried about what happens if... There is still time to choose, and it is better to spend that time to come up with objective arguments to counter opposition against the ODbL/CT.

There is definitely some questioning about the CT, and I think that is justified, since it is a one-way decision. It can't be undone, so this decision must be taken carefully. That is one reason why I oppose anything which resembles "pressure".

Frank

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#116 2010-12-14 22:15:13

fsteggink
Member
From: Utrecht
Registered: 2010-02-13
Posts: 240
Website

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

edwin-ldbg wrote:

Gib deine Stimme für Geert Wilders und du bist ein Gewinner!

Godwin, is that you calling?

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#117 2010-12-14 23:18:24

edwin-ldbg
Member
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 1,492

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Duitse even gesproken, niet in het Engels. Geert Wilders wordt gestuurd door God. Hij zal oordelen de levenden en de doden.

Last edited by edwin-ldbg (2010-12-14 23:22:46)

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#118 2010-12-15 00:53:24

wicking
Member
From: El Hierro
Registered: 2010-03-06
Posts: 455

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Für alle die die Technik dahinter interessiert: Das Skript wurde erweitert. Man kann nun auch Grenzen angeben (also mindestens 100 Knoten, Wege und Relationen oder so).

Hier ein paar Beispiele:

check-odbl-ranks.pl 100       ← gibt nur Nutzer mit mindestens 100 Knoten aus
check-odbl-ranks.pl 100 5     ← nur Nutzer mit mind. 100 Knoten und 5 Wegen
check-odbl-ranks.pl 100 5 7   ← nur Nutzer mit mind. 100 Knoten, 5 Wegen, 7 Relationen
check-odbl-ranks.pl 0 0 7     ← nur Nutzer mit mind. 7 Relationen
check-odbl-ranks.pl           ← gibt alle Nutzer aus (wie bisher)

Zeit, die Welt zu berechnen. Wer hat einen extrem schnellen Rechner, den er dafür zur Verfügung stellt? Naja, oder eben ein paar Tage warten.

Ein paar Fehler wurden im Skript auch behoben. Zum Beispiel, dass in der letzten Zeile zweimal die Prozentzahlen für Wege statt für Wege und für Relationen stehen. Aber dafür muss alles neu berechnet werden. Nächste Woche vielleicht.

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#119 2010-12-15 08:58:29

aighes
Member
From: Shanghai
Registered: 2009-03-29
Posts: 5,367
Website

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Was muss man denn tun, um die Welt zu berechnen? Planet herunterladen, ok...mach ich. Perl installieren geht auch und dann?

Wo finde ich dein Script und wie muss ich es aufrufen?

Last edited by aighes (2010-12-15 09:13:04)


Viele Grüße
Henning, developer of RadReiseKarte

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#120 2010-12-15 09:14:11

SunCobalt
Member
From: Eislingen
Registered: 2010-01-09
Posts: 3,810

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

ich wollte die Berechnung der Welt heute abend mal starten. Falls Du es machen möchtest, so würde ich es starten. Damit die html File nicht explodiert, die Mapper erst ab 2000 Nodes aufnehmen

nohup java -Xmx2500M -cp /home/thomas/osmosis-0.37/lib/default/plexus-classworlds-2.2.2.jar
-Dapp.home=/home/thomas/osmosis-0.37 -Dclassworlds.conf=/home/thomas/osmosis-0.37/config/plexus.conf
org.codehaus.classworlds.Launcher --read-xml file=/home/thomas/stats/planet.osm --write-xml file=- |
/home/thomas/stats/check-odbl-ranks.pl 2000 > welt.html &


Thomas

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#121 2010-12-15 09:15:29

aighes
Member
From: Shanghai
Registered: 2009-03-29
Posts: 5,367
Website

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Na wenn du die Welt machst, dann würde ich europa machen...wäre ja blöd, wenn wir das gleiche rechnen wink


Viele Grüße
Henning, developer of RadReiseKarte

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#122 2010-12-15 09:16:10

SunCobalt
Member
From: Eislingen
Registered: 2010-01-09
Posts: 3,810

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

aighes wrote:

Na wenn du die Welt machst, dann würde ich europa machen...wäre ja blöd, wenn wir das gleiche rechnen wink


Europa ist schon da
http://odbl.info.nu/


Thomas

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#123 2010-12-15 09:17:23

aighes
Member
From: Shanghai
Registered: 2009-03-29
Posts: 5,367
Website

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

nugut...dann nicht wink Dann darf BOINC weiter rechnen... big_smile


Viele Grüße
Henning, developer of RadReiseKarte

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#124 2010-12-15 14:22:23

juson
Member
Registered: 2010-04-27
Posts: 454

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

Europa (User über 2000 Nodes)  Gesamt 9069 davon 3462 Zustimmer und 5607 (noch) Nicht-Zustimmer

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#125 2010-12-15 16:27:52

EvanE
Member
Registered: 2009-11-30
Posts: 5,716

Re: ODbL Zustimmung /ODbL Agreement rate

wicking wrote:

... Man kann nun auch Grenzen angeben (also mindestens 100 Knoten, Wege und Relationen oder so).

check-odbl-ranks.pl 100 5 7   ← nur Nutzer mit mind. 100 Knoten, 5 Wegen, 7 Relationen

...

Sind die Bedingungen mit und bzw. oder verknüpft?
Je nach dem wird man die Grenzen anders wählen, um zu seinemr Tabelle zu kommen.

Edbert (EvanE)

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