Indeed, and we (DWG) do understand how much of a PITA it is to have to indicate each individual problem in that way.
The problem is that something like https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/556830183 is actually very difficult to get right from imagery. I’m guessing that 50% of experienced mappers used to mapping from imagery would get it wrong, since the fence is only really noticeable on one of the three imagery sources there.
If it’s not obvious at first mapping, it’s going to be equally difficult to pick up at (remote) review - unless of course you’ve actually been there and know that there really is no road through.
A few posts earlier at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=681717#p681717 Bernhard Hiller was arguing against a complete revert (and to my eyes the new mapping is not as bad as most other stuff that has been completely reverted in the past). The question then is how to go forward - and part of that is knowing exactly what data is problematical and what is not.
Has anyone tried to do anything with the “import=yes” tag that’s been added to e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/556830183 etc.? I don’t know whether people in Thailand mostly use web-based (OSM Carto or similar) maps, or Garmins, or Osmand or something else, but in all cases it’s possible to change the map to some extent based on tags in the data. It would be possible to create for example an OSM Carto-style map that looked as normal but rendered “import=yes” ways in a different colour, or a different width, or as a lower class of road.
Let me know if there’s any help that anyone needs doing any of this.
I did receive your e-mail where you sent me a link to this post inviting me to chat here which I am thankful for. My idea for the call was to get a chance to talk to you in person and have you meet the team of editors that are making these judgements call, and maybe share some of your valuable on the ground feedback and insights with them.
I suggested that previously, and will do so when creating the map for the next holidays in Thailand (don’t know when that will be, likely next December). Some other afficionados among us are capable of doing so, too. But I am sure most map users just use some common downloads or apps which are created in a way best fitting the use in Western countries - e.g. ignoring “unpaved” tags etc. And those maps won’t show the “import” tag either.
I haven’t had as many bad experiences with the FB team as Russ. There are errors, sure, but they are still fairly new to this game. Sometimes I come across things I mapped 4 or 5 years ago and am confused or even embarrassed by the tags I chose at the time. We evolve into better mappers over time. There’s no shortcut to gaining experience.
As soon as I read the story about the Ducati owners having to make a U-turn at the fence, I asked myself why, if that fence was known to be there, it wasn’t on the map as barrier=fence, or the end of Don pin soi 9 marked with a noexit=yes tag? With the absence of that critical information, I might well have completed that connection myself based on the aerial imagery. Mapping errors are everywhere if you look closely enough. Even the English name of the soi is not tagged properly; it should more properly be name:en=Don pin soi 9.
As for the import=yes tag, since some earlier posts on this thread pointed out what others are doing, I started removing it if the way looks okay or if I’ve edited or realigned it. If I have edited it because of an actual ground check, I add a date to the source tag, e.g., 2018-02-09 survey.
Cheers,
Dave
PS: What is the reason the FB group has decided to work on OSM I wonder? Are the FB mappers being paid? There has been considerable push-back on their work, understandably, but what drives their efforts?
Thank you for your feedback. At last years SOTM conferences we shared our reason for working with OSM. You can watch the talk here, https://youtu.be/a8ckY6QN5jI.
And yes our mappers are paid just like many companies and organization using OSM. We use OSM in our products, and you can see OSM for some countries across the Facebook products in things like check in and places/pages. Since we use it, we would also like to contribute and fill in gaps where data is lacking.
That’s a decent summary/overview of the project, and that was SOTM-US, not SOTM. America != the world. And unlike last time, Facebook are allowing the video to be released. Anyone who’s read this thread won’t learn anything new. There’s some nice graphics and videos. However there’s a generic, marketing, non-reason for why you’re doing it (it’s Facebook’s motto). (The real reason any corporation does anything is for shareholder value)
It’s almost a year since you started, and you haven’t released the iD fork. “Move fast” indeed.
Around 16;47 in the video you talk about crowd sourcing street names, (from I presume OSM data?). That’s interesting, do you have any more on that? Have you released the data behind that? It sounds like it could help OSM.
(Interesting question: In the talk you show a screenshot of name matching (of Kamphaeng Phet 2 Road). Has Facebook just Publicly Usedf a Produced Work of a Derived Database? If that image is based on OSM data, doesn’t Facebook now have to release the other database behind it? ?)
That could lead to a major improvement of the map: when you show the map, also inform the facebook user that they can improve the map! They can become active mappers, or report some information via OSM Notes.
And I do not think so much of the bare road network. Our map is so “anonymous” or name-less. What’s the name of that village there? And what’s the number of that road? Here, a school: does it have a name? If they know it, they can add it to the map, in Thai, in English, or both (does not matter if they don’t know it in all languages).
And where’s the next village shop, restaurant, guest house, etc? There’s so much information local people can provide which we cannot trace from the imagery.
When will you do that step?
We completely agree and would love to work on these. We are starting to crowdsource road names, but have yet to figure out a good way to import them. You are correct that there’s so much information local people can provide which we cannot trace from the imagery and we hope to start out with geometry making it easier for local community to other details. Happy to hear your ideas on this.
I agree with Russ. I do not recommend OSM for Off-road riding in Thailand anymore. There is only one map left that only add tracks ridden by a “Person”. And he has promised to keep it that way.